A little more regarding BYU’s defensive preformance.
Photo by Pizac
I understand everyone wants to crucify Max, but it’s not like our defense was consitently stopping the Utes from marching up and down the field.
Yeah, they were put in some bad situations with turnovers and sudden changes, but that’s still no excuse for giving up an average of 8 yards a pass play. True, the final score doesn’t completely explain BYU’s performance. Yet, I am left questioning if the Cougar defense could of held up against the Utes offense with the game on the line? We had success against UNLV, Colorado St., Washington and New Mexico, but would be have been able to stop the Running Utes with everything on the line?
I will give the defense this, they made just enough stops early to give our offense the opportunity to tie the game or take the lead. The bad news is that Utah wasn’t doing anything earth shaking on the offensive side of the ball. Their game plan was very simple, even easy to execute in order to be successful.
Ludwig made the game simple for Brian Johnson. Johnson threw the ball down field a couple of times with no success. BJ had 6 incompletion and of those six, three were down field throw and the others were either dropped or the defender knocked down the ball. All of the Utes completions came on underneath throws that exploited our linebacker’s inability to recognize the crossing patterns and adjust their zones accordingly and throws to the flats which used our coverage scheme against us. The simple fact that Utah was gaining 8 yards a pop made it near impossible to call a defense on second down. Second and short is a defensive coordinators nightmare. Second and short means a D coordinator has to call a defense that accounts for every play in an offenses playbook. Guess what? That’s impossible.
Does anyone remember what hurt us against UNLV? Don’t hurt yourself…..it was underneath routes and the flats. Ludwig must have been on the phone with Sanford drawing up scenarios to save his job, who knows it might have worked.
What did BYU’s defense do well?
They stopped the run. Utah only ran for 108 yards on 35 attempts for a 3.1 yard average and Mack and Asiata didn’t play a huge role in the Utes offensive strategy. And we didn’t lose a DB to a KO until late in the fourth quarter. By the way I hope Andrew Rich is alright. He has a lot of talent and we’ll need his toughness and smarts next year.
They didn’t stop playing. Even late in the game -after Kruger’s amazing interception- the BYU defense continued to play and almost came up with a huge stop on the goal line.
What did BYU’s defense do….well, not so good?
Zone coverage’s – Our coverage’s have lost the match-up zone principles that they are based upon. Defensive players are becoming stagnate in their drops and they aren’t relating to receivers and RB’s within their zones. It’s a simple concept, but it only works if players can recognize routes and anticipate where guys may end up.
I don’t mean defenders need to chase routes, but they do need to communicate, relate and cover offensive players within their zones. Most of the problem lies with recognition. Once the receiver moves our linebackers need to be able to recognize where they are going and then move to their next threat, fluidly. BYU’s defenders are still hesitating or floating in open space, which leaves receivers wide open for easy completions.
Also, 0-as a side note- Fowler…your dad didn’t want to say it, but your man coverage technique needs to improve before bowl game. It’s a simple fix. Move your feel laterally, while getting your hands on the receiver, with your eyes on the waist of the receiver. Using the correct hand in jamming the receiver will force you into the right position and hopefully you can knock the ball down when it ’s thrown. Fowler had a tough match-up against Casteel, but his sluggish feet and hands caused too much separation and resulted in easy completion.
I normally don’t try and single out individuals, but it easy when I used to find myself in similar situations on the field. I didn’t get it right all the time either, but slowing receivers up with contact will sometimes compensate for slow hands and feet.
Our defense will need to return to the basics during their time off before the bowl game. Whoever we face in the bowl game is going to use a lot of different pass plays and will also try and exploit the underneath routes. Our defenders can’t be robots; they have to be able to move fluidly and athletically through their progressions so they end up in the right place to make the play.
Hooray…we might get picked to go to the Las Vegas Bowl game, again. I guess it could be worse. We could be going to the Albuquerque or Humanitarian Bowl.
Stopping the run was huge. Props to them for being a good run defense. It wasn’t too horrible to see their pass game because their run game was stopped. I thought that we could make some adjustments at the half to fix the passing game and still be contenders throughout the second half. From a fan perspective, those quick 5-9 yard out-of-bounds passes don’t really give the offense too much emotion. When we stuff a running play by a good running back, that gives the defense the momentum.
Our defense wasn’t great, but they played well enough for us to win. When we needed some stops for us to either tie the game or give us a chance to take the lead they made those stops. A couple of times we were driving to take the lead and then……..
On the bright(ish) side, I really liked some of the wrinkles Anae threw in. And in the end what’s done is done. Lets hope we can win the bowl game for the seniors, get some momentum into next season and celebrate another 11 win season.
Also on the bright side, IIRC we have three teams ranked a head of the ACC leader and two in front of the Big East leader. It has been a great year for the conference as a whole. Lets finish it off with a great bowl season.
Our defense played more than well enough to win, their 3rd down conversion % was practically identical to ours, if we didnt keep giving them the ball inside the red zone, they score 21 maybe, I was really proud of them. Its ironic the best part of our team failed us at the worst time.
Quinn, what are your thoughts on the coaching situation?. In the past week, the conference has had 3 coaches given the pink slip (Joe Glenn, Rocky Long, Chuck Long) which means those programs are head hunting for replacements. The most likely targets are the schools at the top of the conference namely us, Utah and TCU. Gary Anderson’s name has been thrown around for the New Mexico job and there are now rumors Jaime Hill is interested in San Diego State. I wouldn’t be surprised they even start flirting with Anae. I’d hate to see any of our coaching staff go, but I guess it’s part of the business. When you’re successful, other teams want a piece of what you have.
I agree with Quinn. The defense, while it didn’t have it’s worst game, wasn’t going to stop Utah if the game was on the line. Utah didn’t even run a reverse! I can’t imagine what would have happened if they did!! Utah stuck with their game plan of dinking and dunking us with the occasional ball downfield to keep us honest. Ludwig called a great game, with only a few exceptions (what was up with them running the option to the short side of the field that 3rd down??) and BJ made a living throwing 10 yards and shorter at a time.
I thought Anae called a good game too. Granted, we should have run the ball more, but the twists that he showed this game were awesome. Hall pretending to audible and Unga getting the direct snap! Collie running the option and Wildcat stuff! I heard Anae had all that stuff all year long, but didn’t think he needed to use it. Is that right? Or was that special for this game?
I love Max Hall and am looking forward to next year, but he has to own this one. 6 turnovers can’t be blamed on the OC, especially with offense we run. Max has a ton of different options every play, you can’t blame Anae for who he chose to throw to.
Here’s to Doman working with Max on spreading the ball around and using his eyes to look people off!
I thought that the defense played well enough, especially in the secpond half. Utah did not score in the 3rd quarter and there were three straight three and outs (I think).
Also, whats up with Brandon Howard (I shouldn’t single people out), but it seems like he is way to timid and only has these weak arm tackles. It appears that teams pick on him. I would have liked to have seen Anrew Rich lining up with Bradley. Do know why they insist on keeping Howard in there or am I missing something completely?
Quinn,
You should really apply to be a DB coach at BYU – your blog shows so much insight and attention to detail. I think you’d be awesome!
The coaching situation will be interesting. I would expect Patterson, if he exits, to go to a less prominate BCS school.
I hope the Ute coordinator gets a shot at a HC position. I think he is a good coach.
I can’t comment on Coach Hill, I have spoken with him a lot this season and I know he is looking forward to Thanksgiving and the bowl game. As far as him leaving, I’ll leave that up to everyone else to talk about.
I do think he would be an awsome HC and he deserves a shot.
Howard did tuck his tail when he went to tackle Casteel. I was mad as hell when I saw that. Hopefully he overcomes that part of his game and can make a more significant contribution next year.
I had fun at this game for at least the first 3 quarters, and I have been on our defense all year. I think our defense played as well at times this game as they have any game this year except for UCLA & Wyoming. I mean our middle linebackers are not going scare anyone with their pass coverage skills and they got exploited too often to kill enough drivers and we made the Ewte quarterback look like an all-american with his short passes.
We made stops and even produced some 3 and outs. To me the defense did enough to not lose this game. I would give them a C+ or B-.
I guess I sort of gave up on this defense being better then good or average a long time ago. This defense is sort of like me and calculus. We both showed up and if we got out of there with a passing grade we did great.
I am not saying that the thought of “someone got their hands on Ken Schmidt’s playbook” didn’t cross my mind this year, but we just don’t have the talent in certain places to make the plays needed to get things done at a grade better then a C for most the year. You can argue about how you would rather die…. get picked apart one piece at a time and hope they get full and barf it up or attack them like crazy and die quickly.
Unfortunately, I am not one of those people who thinks that you just all of a sudden go from pedestrian to all conference in one off season as a defensive player. Next year will be Bronco’s 5th season as head coach and I believe 7th as the Defensive guy. There will be no coaching excuses for this Defense to not be better next year. When things have not gone as expected Bronco’s history has always been that he is willing to look for solutions and I believe he is smart enough and honest enough with himself that he will make this happen. I hope, because I don’t want to lose to anyone next year.
Quinn,
How would you rate the athletic talent of BYU’s defensive players? Do you feel the players lack talent and athleticism or do they just need to learn how to execute better?
Howard is THE worst tackler I’ve seen in a while. I’m all for trusting that he’ll be where he’s supposed to be, but being there doesn’t mean a thing if you can’t make the tackle.
Quinn, I remember I saw you right before the UNI game and I asked how Kellen would do this year. Your response was “fine” I wasn’t convinced and I’m guessing you weren’t either. Who fills your shoes next year because Fowler certainly didn’t. He’s a solid back but not good enough for that role. As far as the rest of the D goes I thought it was designed to let the underneath stuff work but not get burned deep? That will never work if a half-decent QB has 5 seconds to find an open guy. Flag football teaches you that. Do you think we see a 4-3 next year so we can get pressure on the QB?
I was pleased with the defense overall, especially after that first quarter. That took a lot to come back and be competetive after getting your tail whooped for 15 minutes.
Our defensive athleticism stands at about a 7 out of 10. There are a few other players that are skew the date, but for the most part we hoover around a 7.
Going to a 4-3 takes a different kind of D End and I don’t think that we have that guy yet, nor would we be able to get them in the recruiting. As Quinn said the talent is about 7/10. Ina 4-3 you need great pass rushing ends. We have bigger, slower, gap filler type guys that win every now and then. That is why we use our OLBs as the speed rushing D End. Don’t let the 3-4 fool you. More often than not we bring an OLB so it is essentially a 4-3.
Quinn and Staff,
What’s your take on Andrew Rich? I don’t think I’ve seen a more devastating hit than the one he laid on Godfrey (no offense, Quinn. Your hit on Challenger comes pretty close). I thought it was a chicken-crap call by the refs (Godfrey had the ball and was turning when he was hit – I don’t see how that’s a penalty). Anyway, does he have the cover skills to be a good safety? It’s obvious he can hit and likes it. What about Pendleton? All I hear is how great of an athlete he is, but he hardly saw the field this year. Can he step in next year at the other safety and contribute?
Question for Markell and Quinn. Having played for BYU in both 3-3-5 and 3-4 defenses, do you have a preference on which one you liked better? While the 3-4 has proven to be statistically more successful overall for BYU, I have to admit I enjoyed watching the 3-3-5. Bronco also seemed to have a real passion for it too. Unfortunately, the defense started to become less feast and more famine in key games. Critics called it names like the “Star Wars defense” or just a gimmick. It was one of those defenses that needed the right personnel to succeed.
Seasider,
The key is in your last sentance….W. VA and UNM have been able to be successful with it mainly because they are getting the talent needed in the secondary. Sure it was an exciting defense to run, but it was pretty stressful too. I have never played man until BYU and then I was in a 3-3-5 where I was covering all sorts of guys man to man. I liked the blitzing part, but the man coverage stressed me out. I did not trust our secondary at all in it, but it wasn’t really their fault. They were being asked to do something that just couldn’t possibly be done.
I loved the 3-4! If I were to coach in the future I would run the 3-4. It works with all levels of talent, because it relies on intelligence more than ability.
Bruce,
I am excited for Rich. That Hit fired me up. It was worth the penalty even though it did not warrant a penalty. I think they threw the flag because the Ute coaches told the refs to watch for #22 leading with the head. The only bad part was that it was too late in the game. We needed that on the opening drive or at least in the 1st quarter.
I think it was like when Rocky made the Russian bleed and his trainer said, “You cut him Rock, you made him bleed! He’s not a machine!” The D needed something to make them believe they could play with these guys and to me, that hit was the statement.
Great article.
I think the sum of what you are saying is that BYU needs more defensive play-makers, particularly at lb. The starters this year just aren’t making enough plays and I don’t see them making enough changes to get better in pass coverage. Kehl was fantastic in pass coverage because of his desire to win and good speed. I just don’t see this in the current starters.
As you stated, when someone comes in their zone they need to be aware and move to make a play. Bauman is just a step slow and I don’t see that changing. Let’s hope BYU lands some of those highly touted lb recruits.
Quinn, its a little late tonight, but I would very much enjoy sharing some thoughts with you regarding BYU, its talent pool, its schemes, losing to Utah and how the LDS culture both affects winning and losing at BYU.
Are you interested? As I re-read what I just wrote, it seems I am taking your place, but my hope is to give some coaching perspective, playing perspective, and some fan perspective in one detailed blog. If not, no worries.
Hall had a bad game, but it falls under the so-what theory?
This is why it’s about the church. Because of some self-righteous prick that made this statement on this site.
What exactly are you talking about when you say this?
“At the end of a hard loss like this there is something to be said about walking off the field, and out of the stands knowing there is a little something to the BYU program that they will never have. ”
What is that little something you arrogant prick? Thinking you are better than someone else because you have the Gospel? Great way to think. You should feel sorry for how much hate comes out of crappy Utah fans.
Bews, on November 22nd, 2008 at 9:45 pm Said:
Man, what a disappointment. I secured tickets through my wife’s grandpa who is and has been a die hard Ute for 50 plus years. I knew going through him would land me clean in the middle of Ute country. But I rolled the dice and decided to rough it out in lieu of watching the game in “HD” on the crappy MTN. I have to say what a truly horrible decision I made. Not that anyone out there will be surprised at the Ute’s reaction to a BYU fan sitting in their midst, but I was surprised at how low they have gone. I have been to Rice Eccles in the past watching my bro-in-law punt for BYU but today it was taken to a whole new level of profanity, lack of class and just pure trash. From watching the guy next to me get tackled by security to have some idiot clap and yell in my wife’s face (that almost went to blows but I think my 4 day stubble convinced him I am not the ordinary BYU fan and was ready to go fisticuffs…) to the sign that said, “Collie is a B****” they demonstrated a whole new level of ignorance, stupidity, and malice.
At the end of a hard loss like this there is something to be said about walking off the field, and out of the stands knowing there is a little something to the BYU program that they will never have. The one time I felt good tonight was running into Markell Staffieri before the game and seeing the sun glisten off his championship ring from last year. I immediately thought of next year when we get another crack at those freaking Utes
I vote the above post (response to bews) off the island. Take that to the message boards.
I hope Coach Hill isn’t leaving the program yet. I wish him all the best opportunity, but we’re gonna miss that guy.
Quinn and Markell, who are going to be the defensive captains and leaders, next year? Who steps up and takes the role in practice and on the field? Do they usually start stepping up around the bowl game? Or is it around Spring and Fall camps next year?
While I’ll give credit to the offense for this loss I have to believe that the thorn in our side this year is the defense. I understand that personel requires us to play off the receivers but by doing so we give up 5-8 yards every play if the QB and receiver can throw and catch. All Utah had to do in most instances was complete four passes in a series and they were in field goal territory. Our offense cannot be expected to just outscore opponents. When we play good teams we have to have a stopping defense.
On the issue of the hard hitting Andrew Rich – BYU Safety :
In the BYU-UNLV game Rich is flagged for a very late helmet to helmet hit on the previously broken jaw of QB Omar Clayton.
Later that same game hit UNLV receiver helmet to helmet (TV commentators suggested it was very close call not to call the penalty.)
Air Force-BYU – Andrew Rich is reported injured with a “bell ringer”
Utah Game – Rich flagged for his helmet to helmet hit on Godfrey.
Later goes helmet to helmet with Asiata and lays on the field afterwards.
Rich is working to get a scholarship, but he or someone else is in danger of a significant injury – Do coaches like this kind of stuff or why don’t they intervene?
Does this kamikaze have more bad hits this year than I have listed?
Swing Cat I’m with you, there’s no place for name calling here, that’s what the message boards are for. As for the “arrogance” shown, I don’t believe that thing that BYU has that is better than the other programs is the gospel. I think it’s Bronco’s work ethic, desire to elevate the school and program reputation by great football and class, and most of all his knowledge and understanding that football isn’t everything, he is charged with molding the lives of young men. People can criticize him and the program all they want but if that is being self-righteous then sign me up. I’m on the Bronco bandwagon and agree almost entirely that BYU does have something that no other program has, that something is Bronco Mendenhall!!
I think when Bronco came out and said football is 4th on his priority list, that showed BYU has something different. How many other football programs require their players to do service in teh community? I don’t think it has as much to do with the gospel as it does with Tradition, Spirit and Honor. That’s not to say other schools aren’t good. There are hundreds of good schools out there, but BYU definetely has something different.
I still Dont get why the corners were giving them that much spacing That was Crazy to me!
Quinn, I agree that the defense needed to play better but the defense is what it is. I frankly think that they played well enough that if the offense had done its job, BYU could have won. I think the reason everyone is so upset with Max right now is because the offense was supposed to carry the defense this year. the offense was supposed to be the strength of the team and in the Utah and TCU games, the offense was not the strength of the team, and Max was a huge reason why the offense performed as bad as it did in those games.
I’ll echo what’s been said about the D – it didn’t prevent us from winning, which was all I could hope for.
I want to ask about the LB situation, which others have touched on. It seems to me that the soul of the defenses the past few years has been the leadership and play of 1 or 2 linebackers. Jensen, Kehl, Nixon are examples. When they’re on their game, the rest of the defense seems to elevate its play. With Nixon graduating, do you see any of the current linebackers stepping up to fill that role?
I loved that awesome Rich hit. I jumped in the air and accidentally punched the ceiling with my fist when I saw that. My first thought was of Quinn when he talked about how badly we needed to see a play maker. It was awesome. Then came the penalty…
This was an elder’s quorum activity for us, so there were Ute fans there and some who claimed to be neutral, but obviously were there just to heckel me, the BYU fan. Anyway, I got into an argument because this guy who was acting like he was the expert was trying to tell me that the reason we got that penalty was because Rich was leading with his head. I say that’s bogus because if he had hit him low they wouldn’t have called the penalty. I think it was primarily because of this season’s emphasis on helmet-to-helmet. What are your thoughts?
We handled Washington, CSU and UNLV? Yes, but not defensively. All 3 of those games we were depending on a defensive stop to not let them score at the end of the game. In all 3 games they scored. Luckily we blocked the kick in Washington. CSU scored too quick so our O went to work. And UNLV was too soon too. Then they ran out of time on their final attempt.
The Humanitarian Bowl would be a MAJOR step up…
Quinn:
I would like to know your feelings about Jordan Pendleton not seeing the field more this year – I have to believe it is personal for what went on between him and Hill – and Bruce you are right – Pendleton is an amazing athlete and should’ve been on the field – he is a good tackler, physical and fast.
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