A Question?
How can BYU move to the next level? It seems like BYU has become a staple in the top 25 with wins over the bulk of their schedule, but how do they make the transition from good in a reasonably good conference to superior in the conference and even more noticeable on a national level?
It is a tough transition that BYU, Utah, and TCU are all in pursuit of obtaining. Utah has performed well in a couple of seasons but hasn’t shown the consistency to be recognized at the national level year in and year out. BYU and TCU have had a consecutive great years -and all three have been consistent- but how are they going to transition?
BYU has been trying to focus on the character of players and relying on their desire to play extremely hard -while possible lacking in a few of the physical attributes. I should know….I was one of those players that played hard and lacked a few physical attributes.
TCU has the physical attributes a solid coaching staff and a huge recruiting pool. What’s been holding them back? I think it’s the fact that they normally have a let down game or two during their season. This zaps their players desire and they end up with a solid -but not stellar season.
Utah has larger fluctuations, but has hit the “jack-pot” more often compared to the rest of the conference. Have the capitalized on weaker conference years -that’s not for me to say. But they have had some very talented teams and there is no doubt that they have benefited from the recruiting that comes from playing in BCS games.
So who is going to be the team that makes the jump to the big time, on a more consistent bases? (By consistent I mean the Boise State or USC of the Mountain West Conference)
1 – Get better athletes, not necessarily all about more speed. I’ll take guys like Austin Collie that run 4.6 40 yard dash, but have great body control, balance, and hand-eye coordination. BYU needs to get more of the top LDS athlete. Being in Pac-10 country it is hard to see how there are 15-20 starters on Pac-10 teams, most on the O-line and defensive side of the ball. Cleary BYU can’t get them all, but it must improve it’s value proposition. Two areas of particular interest: offensive tackle and defensive line. D. Reynolds, Oswald and Alleto have been abused at times by good DEs. One concern I have is if you look at the attrition of signed recruits since 2004, it’s pretty alarming. I think HB Arnett had a recent article illustrating a different point, but the attrition rate stuck out to me.
2 – Execute better. How BYU coaches think that they can out-execute teams that are equally, if not more talented, by practicing less is beyond me. TCU and Boise State run high intensity, fast tempo practices, for the whole time alloted, not just 90 minutes. Perhaps push to a more physical practice, where you can execute at full speed. (I see the tradeoff of going lighter in practice if your depth is a concern – see point 1)
3 – Be more innovative. A reason BYU was so good in the late 1970s and the 1980s, was a decided schematic advantage. BYU was more of an oddity in terms of their passing attack – an offense most teams saw 2 or 3 times a year. The Big 12 is a great example of how college football went from wishbone and power running games all the way through the 90s, to now running the Texas Tech Air Raid, and spread schemes. I am not suggesting trying to create a “new spread” because BYU probably can’t get the athletes for that. However, Boise State is great example of innovating a popular scheme, one that is difficult to prepare for. I think there is a nice balance between points 2 & 3, but at times I feel BYU is on the “attempt to perfectly execute a more simplistic gameplan” end of the spectrum.
4 – Ditch a portion of the non-football activities. Do we really need the athletes to regularly focus time on non-family, non-football, and non-academic activities? Isn’t a 12-14 class load, 25-30 hours of football, and family time busy enough? Do we really need firesides every week, community service, etc.? Perhaps it isn’t a large burden, but I know some players, past and present, suggest it can be overwhelming.
5- When all else fails, adjust expectations? Should 8-4 to 11-2 seasons be the goal?
I think BYU is that team… I say tis not just because I’m a fan but because they have always been very consistent.
The only team I can think of that maybe has a chance in our conference is San Diego State. Colorado State and New Mexico don’t have the fan base or support and they never will. UNLV is a basketball school. Wyoming is in Laramie, so that will never happen. Air Force has all the money and facilities in the world, but that after school commitment deal will never allow them to make it.
The only schools outside our conference that have a chance in my eyes is Houston or SMU. SMU could be another TCU in a couple years.
Good question. This has been tossed around for quite a few years, which leads me to believe that we already are at the highest level given our recruiting base and school situation (similar to AF, IMO). We will always be a top 25 team, which is great! (see http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3842161) I’m very happy with where the cougars are. We’ll bust into the BCS one of these years, but for the most part, I’m convinced we’ll always be hovering around the 17-24 rank at years end.
Quinn,
This is the question; to be or not to be? BYU needs to decide if they want to be BCS team or not. If not keep doing what they have been doing in the past few years. Utah wants the big stage I’m sure, TCU wants it also.
The lower tier of teams need to find a conference that fits them. I agree with previous posts, (BYU JACK and Jim).
The Church and school ask a lot of the players and let’s admit it for good or bad a lot of top athelets do not want to live the honor code, at this age in thier lives members or not.
Other schools do not have this challenge. It’s just a fact, I don’t have a magic solution.
Local recruiting seems to be overlooked. There is local member tallent, A case in point; I know of a kid in SL who ran a legit 4.3 / 40 he had hands, great football ability and is totally tough. He was a Kelly Smith type player.
But he did not play in a 5 A state championship so he was never looked at. He had speed and talent. He was just on a poor HS team. Another case, Kevin Curtis ala Utah State and NFL, was totally over looked by the BYU staff. He was never approached and walked on at Utah State. (think we blew that one)
The staff will spend millions recruiting CAL or Texas players, but not drive an hour away to see a local Mormon kid.
The non-member athelete presents many other challenges honor code …Or Utah’s reputation good or bad all come into play.
The question is to be a BCS team or not ?
I do think the Utah Jazz have some of the same recruiting issues, some players don’t want to come to this State. I love it here but it seems to be an issue. Malone even got called an Uncle Tom for loving the State…Of Utah.
I don’t know if it’s BYU’s goal yearly to be A BCS team or not?
Just let us know we will be a lot less frustrated with 10-2 or 8-4 whatever ?
If the conference can continue to perform well against AQ schools then the MWC will eventually get an auto-bid into the BCS. At that point it’s a matter of win the conference and you are in. Plus, with the national respect of being an AQ conference, the conference champion should consistently be in the top ten at seasons end.
Too many people project what is happening right now to be what we should always expect. When we are conference champs it is, “Nobody in this conference can touch BYU ever again.” When we beat Utah I hear, “We own them from here on out.” When we lose to TCU two years in a row we start thinking we can’t compete with them anymore. It’s all bogus.
BYU will win a lot more conference championships over the next decade and I am optimistic that will get them into a BCS game. If the MWC does not become an AQ conference then all BYU has to do is schedule creampuffs for OOC and sweep the conference. BYU I beleive will continue to be very good under Mendenhall every single year. TCU and Utah on the other hand will go up and down year to year (and week to week) so that will give us the ability to sweep the conference many more times.
I hate the BCS for many reasons that everybody knows about, but I also hate the BCS for what it has done to fan expectations. If it’s not a BCS bowl then the seasons a failure. It’s ridiculous. I don’t care as a HUGE BYU fan if we become ‘elite’ like the Florida, USC, OU, OSU, Bama, and those other programs. I am perfectly content to have as my goal for the team to rule the MWC and occasionally beat a top tier team.
So I don’t know if this post had anything to do with the topic. Sorry, I just kinda got off on a tangent. Anyways, GO COUGARS!, and thanks for the site guys.
TCU is the closest to making the jump to elite status. If TCU wins out and then wins in a BCS game, or by some miracle plays in the national championship game, it will be tough to argue that they haven’t have made the jump. That would establish them as a first choice school for the top Texas recruits, rather than the school you pick when your offer from UT, TAMU or Texas Tech doesn’t come through. When TCU starts plugging elite Texas recruits into their system, they will be a perennial top 10 team and the unquestioned big dog in the conference. They may even become a target for the Big XII or Pac-10.
On second thought, TCU probably needs to see how much of their coaching staff sticks around following such a landmark season. If the coaches jump ship, then TCU, like Utah post-Urban, may find itself back among mere mortals, at least for a while.
BYU is next closest to becoming an elite team. They are in the fortunate position of being able to trade on their good name, so to speak. They’ve been elite before, which makes the media and voters more likely to consider them as elite in the future. Like TCU, BYU needs a landmark (i.e. BCS busting) season to be able to consistently secure top recruits (though LDS rather than Texan). If BYU can consistently secure the best LDS talent (one great recruiting year is not consistency) and supplement that with great but probably not elite non-LDS talent, they should be the alpha male in the MWC.
Utah has busted the BCS twice, but they still haven’t established themselves among the nation’s elite or even as the unquestioned top team in the conference. That suggests that they may never reach the upper echelon. Rivalry aside, I still believe that nothing short of a national title run will set Utah apart from the rest on a long term basis.
One thing that would change the preceding analysis is the MWC gaining auto-qualifier status. If the MWC joins the BCS, that dilutes the other conferences’ share of the pot and dramatically increases the amount of money and exposure for the conference. Access to elite recruits also increases. The effect is would be to narrow the gap between the top MWC team (under one of the previous scenarios) and the second and third place team because the prestige and resource advantage is mitigated.
BYU may even be at a disadvtange relative to other MWC teams if the conference joins the BCS, because BYU’s recruiting pool isn’t helped as much as other schools (other schools have a better chance with all BCS-caliber recruits while BYU only has a better chance with LDS BCS-level kids) and all schools get the same financial benefit.
B-
Some good points.
1. Getting better athletes is something that’s easier said than done. Recruiting the right players for BYU is a very difficult balancing act. You want to go out and get these great players but at the same time it has to be someone willing to live the honor code. Then there’s the LDS athlete issue. We can get the best LDS players we can lay our hands on, but most of them ending serving missions meaning that in some cases, it’s 3-4 years before we even see these guys playing in LES. We’ve had some great recruiting classes but that revolving door of athletes coming and going from missions is tricky. We still have players on the team from the Crowton era.
2. Every team has a different philosophy on to best prepare for games. There are a lot of reasons why BYU loses a lot of these big games but I don’t think it was because they had soft practices.
3. I think we’re all in agreement that we want to see more wrinkles in the offense from Anae. However, I don’t think our current offense gets enough credit. It’s not fancy but it’s productive and usually consistent. BYU has its place in college football history for revolutionizing the passing attack but I don’t think we need to try to get catch lightning in a bottle again just to show the rest of the country that we’ll still relevant.
4. The firesides and community service gigs may not seem very useful to a football program but they are little things that will pay dividends not just for the player but the program as well. BYU is a church school supported by tithing funds from its members. It means a great deal to these members around the country that their contributions great or small are going towards a program that building young men who are more than just football players. The firesides also help members identify and have a personal connection with their team. They go away with the feeling that these are their boys. This also theoretically helps with recruiting and ticket sales.
I think it’s interesting that the author puts BSU in the “elite” program status. I wouldn’t put them in the same sentence as USC.
Above posts have got it, especially Derek as far as the conference goes. If the conference gains status and BYU wins the conference, we will reach that level. So, we need the bottom dwellers to step up just a little bit. The top 3 of Utah, BYU and TCU are already there. Once our conference improves, then we can schedule down the nonconference games, similar to what the ACC and Big East schools do.
If the conference does not improve, then we need to do what BSU does and go undefeated and win 1-2 big games each year. I don’t see this happening unless Utah and TCU jump ship. Right now our conference is kind of a “tweener” – not in the same class as SEC/Big12/Big10/Pac10; coming on par with BigEast/ACC, not as weak as WAC/MEAC/Conference USA…
I love Bronco’s focus on our team. So many of the above variables are out of our control. Instead, focus on improving each player, each unit and each game and let the “elite status” come when it may. For now, I’m satisfied with 10 win seasons and the occasional BCS/national hype that comes our way!
Ki
I think if you switch BSU and BYU between the WAC and MWC, then we are exactly in BSU’s shoes and would be looked at the same way they are now–as the big fish of the conference. It’s because TCU and Utah have come on so strong that we can’t count on waltzing through our conference every year as BSU does. And that’s the main difference between now and the “glory years” of the Edwards era.
I think we as fans put too much emphasis on hoping for that pie-in-the-sky national title every year. Think of how many other schools start out with that same hope. And many of those schools have fantastic athletes at two and three deep, which we may never have. For ANY team, let alone BYU, the stars have to align just right for a national championship. But as things stand now, you lose one game and you think your season is ruined just because you can’t be #1. That’s just stupid.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t hope for it. We will always want to set our sights high. But realistically we would be overachieving were we to manage to even play for a national championship once every decade, let alone win it.
OTOH, we do want to always do what we can to improve our lot, and many of the suggestions that have been made are good ones. It really looks to me like ability to recruit better athletes IS improving. And that is a direct result of the great seasons we’ve been having.
It seems to me that the plan to reach the next level is already in place. It will be fun to watch and see how things unfold.
I think all Gooch was saying when he referenced BSU is that BSU is the flagship team of their conference, as well as USC is the flagship team of their conference. The MWC doesn’t have a flagship team. Instead it has a three-headed monster.
I think tons of good points have been made. I have one other thing to add though: there needs to be a mentality change. Anyone here remember when BYU went on the road to BC and almost won that game? Remember what Bronco said to the team at halftime: stop acting so surprised that we’re still in this game.
I think there’s a dominant mentality, possibly subconscious, that if BYU beats a team like Oklahoma, then it’s a miracle and it’s unbelievable and it’s amazing…because BYU wasn’t supposed to be able to win that game anyway. How does that mentality get changed? Beats me. But I do believe it has more to do with the players taking charge of the team’s identity, than it does with the coaches controlling the team’s psyche.
Seasider -
Good counterpoints. I can see your argument, but perhaps I can clarify mine a bit better.
1 – Understand it is a very difficult job to recruit at BYU, especially if you want the top caliber athlete. All I am saying is that there are enough top LDS athletes, especially on both sides of the line, that should BYU get more than it’s share, would enable them to be a better program. I look at Oregon, with two LDS DL starting. One of them is the LDSSA president at the school. (Admittedly Will T. was a BYU commit orginally.) I look at Oregon State with many polynesian LDS kids. I understand that many self-select away from BYU, however, I think BYU can do a better job of conveying the value proposition of the program. It’s getting better (at least in the recruiting rankings,) we’ll see if it translates on the field.
2- Again understand the delicate balance of practicing hard, versus preserving the teams energy and depth. On this point, I more refer to future seasons, once the scholarship issue has been fully rectified and there is more depth. I think the example Bronco likes to use is that NFL teams don’t have live contact in practice; however, as Quinn so aptly pointed out pro’s and college athletes aren’t the same. Professionals have OTAs, Mini-camp, 4-5 preseason games, and training camp.
3 – I actually like Anae’s offense and it has been quite successful. I am not saying invent some new offense, as I noted, but rather that to compare BYU of now to BYU of 1985 isn’t a good comparison. BYU owned a distinct competitive advantage then, that they dont’ have now. In my opinion, that is a differentiating factor between being great, and good. Plus, you look at the coaches BYU had then, pretty excellent group of coaches. To your point, how about putting in the “Wild Brigham” with Harvey taking direct snaps for a play or two. Put McKay in the slot to get mismatches with LBs. These things aren’t hard to install and it would force DCs like Patterson and Sitake to spend 15-20 minutes of their practice each day on these things.
4- Interesting perspective on point 4. I don’t disagree about the potential benefits you state, I just wonder if you do the cost / benefit for the players, if it makes sense. In talking to two starters over the past two years, there sentiment is that it takes away time from studying film, family, and / or studying for school. I mean if you trying to maintain a 3.5 gpa (or 3.0) while practicing 20 hours a week, getting treatment, and finding time to date or be with your family, you are busy. Clearly, there are benefits to the community service and firesides, but I don’t see the correlation to football performance. Hence, if we want to improve……
BYU can get there if…………
We scheme each game. We cannot be a team that has the bend but don’t break mentality each week. Yeah we can get past the CSU’s and UNLV and San Diego States, but if you do not scheme against TCU, or Utah, we will always be a 9-4 10-3 or on a good year 11-2. Here is a stats page for BYU that has their rankings in each offensive and defensive category.
http://stats.instatesports.com/football/ncaaf-teams.aspx?page=/data/ncaaf/teams/team33.html
My thoughts are –
The last two seasons have been good and frustrating at the same time. But I think that in a couple of years we’ll all realize that BYU’s never really had it this good. Even LaVell’s teams were 11-2, 10-3, 9-4 with that one magical season and a few other really great ones (’83, ‘96).
I don’t know how much of the losses the last two seasons can be attributed to the combination of players we have now, but next years team will be different and looking into the future it looks pretty promising.
I for one am content to be playing in a conference with other great teams, which means losing a game here or there; playing LA Tech, NM State, Idaho, etc. every year doesn’t sound as much fun as what we have now. I mean being a Boise St fan is good for a week or two, then it’s nap time until December. The trade off is obviously losing the conference once in a while, and with SDSU, CSU and Wyoming on the upswing it may even mean losing to them once in a while. I’ll take it over a Boise St-like dominance any day.
I’m totally stoked to watch BYU win games every year and maybe someday all their stars may align – right players, team chemistry, the right schedule, preparing for the big games – and they’ll have that magical year that we’re so anxious for. I’m content to let it happen when it happens.
I do think Anae could do a better job of using his teams strengths – especially Harvey Unga. Just a few Wildcat plays and maybe using Harvey to pull the team back into a game when they’re down and can’t seem to get it together on offense, ala Mark Ingram at Alabama. Is it just me or does it seem like he saves his most predictable, vanilla game plans for the best defenses on our schedule?
I don’t think it needs to be one team. Having three big-time teams that beat up on each other increases the level of competition, and the respect in the conference. One criticism of the WAC and Pac-10 is the same criticism of the Big-8 from Oklahoma’s glory days (Oklahoma and the 7 dwarfs). If one team stepped up, while the two others step down, the MWC’s respect should go down. However, if the big three continue to play well, put up 9-10 wins seasons, and a few undefeated seasons, respect for the conference is going to continue to go up. I hope Utah and TCU continue to recruit the way they have so that our incredible recruiting class from this past year doesn’t just beat up on a bunch of cream-puffs, as ESPN calls the MWC out for being as weak as the WAC. I hope they keep talking about how the MWC is as tough of a conference as the Big East, Big 10, etc.
B
stat link is awesome. Thanks
To join the Elite a school must have elite fans. The following shows where most schools fall. BYU is #27, Utah #51, and TCU #75.
Also, remember that recruiting disadvantages are overcome once a team joins the “BCS” teams. Good examples are Arizona and Arizona State when they joined the PAC10.
NCAA Football Attendance 2008
2008 NCAA DIVISION I FBS FOOTBALL ATTENDANCE TEAM LEADERS
Rank School G Attendance Average
1. Michigan 7 759,997 108,571
2. Penn St. 7 757,775 108,254
3. Ohio St. 7 734,830 104,976
4. Tennessee 7 710,136 101,448
5. Texas 7 686,324 98,046
6. Georgia 6 556,476 92,746
7. LSU 8 739,065 92,383
8. Alabama 7 644,966 92,138
9. Florida 7 633,807 90,544
10. Auburn 7 608,402 86,915
11. Southern California 6 520,756 86,793
12. Oklahoma 6 510,448 85,075
13. Nebraska 8 680,564 85,071
14. Texas A&M 7 575,351 82,193
15. Wisconsin 7 567,616 81,088
16. Notre Dame 6 484,770 80,795
17. South Carolina 7 563,703 80,529
Rank School G Attendance Average
18. Clemson 7 546,004 78,001
19. Florida St. 7 545,773 77,968
20. Michigan St. 7 524,005 74,858
21. UCLA 7 509,563 72,795
22. Iowa 7 491,186 70,169
23. Kentucky 7 486,038 69,434
24. Arkansas 6 412,438 68,740
25. Virginia Tech 6 397,398 66,233
26. Missouri 6 387,120 64,520
27. BYU 6 384,613 64,102
28. Arizona St. 7 446,856 63,837
29. Washington 7 445,479 63,640
30. Illinois 6 370,243 61,707
31. California 7 431,437 61,634
32. Oregon 6 350,661 58,444
33. West Virginia 7 406,593 58,085
34. North Carolina 7 404,800 57,829
Rank School G Attendance Average
35. Purdue 7 396,915 56,702
36. North Carolina St. 7 396,658 56,665
37. Virginia 7 376,708 53,815
38. Texas Tech 7 375,375 53,625
39. Mississippi 7 371,036 53,005
40. Arizona 7 367,080 52,440
41. Kansas 7 356,351 50,907
42. South Fla. 6 298,142 49,690
43. Colorado 6 296,858 49,476
44. Pittsburgh 6 296,113 49,352
45. Minnesota 7 342,705 48,958
46. Oklahoma St. 7 337,828 48,261
47. Maryland 7 335,677 47,954
48. Georgia Tech 7 332,420 47,489
49. Iowa St. 6 284,571 47,429
50. Miami (Fla.) 6 277,792 46,299
51. Utah 6 273,250 45,542
52. Kansas St. 7 316,327 45,190
53. Oregon St. 6 269,584 44,931
54. Mississippi St. 6 260,716 43,453
55. Rutgers 7 296,643 42,378
56. East Carolina 5 210,080 42,016
57. Boston College 7 287,258 41,037
58. Hawaii 8 328,081 41,010
59. Navy 6 244,809 40,802
60. Louisville 8 317,442 39,680
61. UCF 6 237,576 39,596
62. Connecticut 6 235,988 39,331
63. Vanderbilt 6 230,761 38,460
64. Air Force 6 228,801 38,134
65. Fresno St. 5 189,318 37,864
66. UTEP 6 223,778 37,296
67. Stanford 5 171,292 34,258
68. Baylor 7 238,870 34,124
69. Syracuse 6 200,844 33,474
70. Boise St. 6 193,649 32,275
71. Cincinnati 6 191,788 31,965
72. Indiana 8 254,255 31,782
73. Wake Forest 7 221,662 31,666
74. Washington St. 7 215,030 30,719
75. TCU 6 182,331 30,389
76. Southern Miss. 6 180,609 30,102
77. New Mexico 6 178,275 29,713
Rank School G Attendance Average
78. Duke 7 201,091 28,727
79. Northwestern 7 200,132 28,590
80. Army 6 166,512 27,752
81. Memphis 7 175,024 25,003
82. Marshall 6 148,593 24,766
83. San Diego St. 6 146,255 24,376
84. Tulsa 7 170,576 24,368
85. Tulane 6 136,500 22,750
86. Central Mich. 5 113,294 22,659
87. Houston 5 107,592 21,518
88. La.-Lafayette 5 107,342 21,468
89. Arkansas St. 5 105,525 21,105
90. Colorado St. 6 126,046 21,008
91. San Jose St. 6 125,714 20,952
92. UNLV 7 145,944 20,849
93. Middle Tenn. 5 101,135 20,227
94. Rice 6 121,074 20,179
95. SMU 6 118,681 19,780
96. La.-Monroe 6 117,116 19,519
97. Troy 5 96,157 19,231
98. Ball St. 6 115,204 19,201
99. UAB 5 95,308 19,062
100. Nevada 6 114,259 19,043
101. Eastern Mich. 5 94,756 18,951
102. Western Mich. 6 111,281 18,547
103. Wyoming 7 127,636 18,234
104. Northern Ill. 6 109,110 18,185
105. Louisiana Tech 6 108,121 18,020
106. New Mexico St. 6 106,533 17,756
107. Toledo 6 102,046 17,008
108. North Texas 5 84,778 16,956
109. Buffalo 6 101,545 16,924
110. Fla. Atlantic 5 80,628 16,126
111. Bowling Green 5 78,507 15,701
112. Temple 5 77,909 15,582
113. Miami (Ohio) 6 92,611 15,435
114. Idaho 6 92,041 15,340
115. Ohio 5 76,380 15,276
116. Utah St. 6 88,418 14,736
117. Akron 5 71,709 14,342
118. Florida Int’l 5 69,261 13,852
119. Kent St. 6 63,831 10,639
A play in game is the answer. In 2 years when the BCS plan goes under review, It is unfortunately a fairly safe bet that the MWC won’t become a BCS Conference. What I can see happening is the possibility of the BCS garunteeing a BCS Berth for a non BCS team.
In order to determine who gets the spot, the top 2 highest rated non AQ conference champions, AKA BSU vs MWC champ (sorry Houston. Great season, but after Case leaves it is probably back to the land of anonyminity). The main thing this does is free up non BCS teams from the burden of going undefeated. That means that those frosting coated cupcakes that make an appearence on nearly all FBS football schedules will look less attractive.
Teams can take chances by loading up on big name teams(assuming that those teams would agree to play them) with out fear of loosing their chance to play in a BCS Bowl.
This arramgement will is also condusive to producing a NC contender. The “non BCS championship” game alon would be a big boost. Think about if TCU played and beat BSU this year in such a game. They would have 4 wins against teams currently in the top 25. They would be challenging Texas a spot in the NC title game.
It probably won’t happen, but one can dream.
With regards to BSU and USC. Within their respective conferences they have won back to back to back to back…I don’t know how many backs or multiple conference championships. The MWC hasn’t had that since BYU did it in the WAC in the early late 80’s and early 90’s.
I think that the answer to your question is get better players. But, can BYU get enough elite athletes to become a truly elite football program? I think that the answer is no. For example, this year’s recruiting class, which is one of BYU’s best ever, is ranked like 23 or something by Rivals. There are too many obvious recruiting obstacles (location, LDS church, honor code, etc.). To me the coaching staff already gets a lot out of the players that they have. For example, do you think that one single defender on the current BYU team would start for USC, Florida, OK, TX, AL or even TCU? How many would start for Utah?
Fortunately, BYU, Utah, TCU and Boise don’t have to beat a lot of very good teams each year. They don’t play in the SEC or even the PAC 10. They just need to beat like 1 or 2 good teams and maybe 1 really good team each year (or, in the case of Boise, just 1 good team) and they can play in a BCS bowl. And I think that BYU will get there. The younger players at BYU and the guys coming into the program over the next few years look like they will get BYU into a BCS game.
But BYU is not going to be an elite program like USC, FL, OK, TX, etc because they won’t ever have those NFL type players all over the field. And I am fine with that. I love the players that come to BYU.
WestJordan Coug -
Good point on getting into the cartel – I think that is a key to landing the top LDS athletes who go elsewhere because the want better exposure and opportunity. That tide will lift all boats in the MWC, but probably help most with the top 3 programs.
What’s your point with the attendance figures? BYU can’t put more people in the stadium than they already do, unless they expand the stadium. What is the sellout streak at? 18 games I think. BYU likely has a larger fan base than 5-10 of the schools ranked above them in attendance.
If your point is resources, then look at the new Indoor Practice facility, new Student Athlete Complex, and the new practice fields. I would consider them a sign of an “elite fan base.”
As for TCU, I am not sure if you are aware but that school gets serious $ from their relatively small alumni base. Cow Town is full of people who struck it rich in the energy industry and have donated quite large sums to help TCU upgrade it’s facilities.
If your point is fan support for bowl games, Utah did quite a job for the Fiesta Bowl, and I assure you BYU would do the same for any bowl but the Orange Bowl. (Even the Sugar would get many BYU alums from the Dallas, Houston, and Austin areas.) Further, if you are the highest rated non-BCS team in the top 12 you go to the BCS anyway.
Finally, BYU does just find landing quality opponents due to its reputation for a quality program and supportive fan base. See games against Oklahoma, Notre Dame, USC, Boston College as prime exhibits.
Preston: I’d say a bunch would start for the Utes. Not so much on the USC’s and Florida’s…
I think BYU is always great at recruiting and brining in talent on offense. It feels like it’s not as typical on the defensive side of the ball. True, they do get some gems here and there, but as a whole, it has never felt like BYU has brought in a recruiting class that was full of defensive stoppers, in my opinion.
It hurts that much more watching Manti Te’o killing out there for Notre Dame. He would’ve been nice…but I digress…
Anyways, that’s my thought. Offense is competitive usually with any, but the defense needs to feature better athletes/playmakers…. perhaps adopt some of what Utah’s doing and recruit talented athletes, and convince them to play on the defensive side of the ball.
Thanks for all of the interesting perspectives. I would disagree with the author on one main point: I think that of the three top MWC programs, Utah has been the most consistent. If I were a Ute fan, I’d be frustrated by the lack of offseason respect that the team and coach get. He has had to re-tool a program after the exodus of Meyer, after losing a very good QB (Johnson), and continues to vie for the MWC championship each year. Not to mention they’ve had two BCS bids—more than BYU and TCU can account for.
I do agree that BSU is in the elite status. Until some of the big boys are willing to play them and beat them, you can’t deny their success, and they deserve to be identified as elite. Peterson has gone out searching for the competition, and no one will bite.
B., I agree with your point #3, but not sure who’s going to be the next Norm Chow? We were awfully lucky that a defensive-minded coach like Lavell switched paradigms and acted on his strengths (and weaknesses) to develop what he did. What is the next great offensive or defensive innovation? Is there a member of the current BYU coaching staff who will figure it out and implement it?
As far as your point about getting better athletes, I think you picked the two areas that we have about the least to worry about (OL and DE). We can always get serviceable linemen. Look in the NFL—most of the BYU players playing on Sunday are down in the trenches because we can get big, relatively coordinated Polynesians and farm boys to play. What we really need to recruit hard and aggressively for is defensive secondary. If we could occasionally go with defenses that require 1-on-1, we could run blitzes and other plays that wouldn’t allow the offense to double team our linemen, and you’d see more pressure on the QB and sacks. Right now, Jorgensen doesn’t get in there because we have to run zones, meaning LBs aren’t attacking, opposing OL can double up on key D-linemen, and the QB has more time (see BYU vs. SDSU).
My concern about practice time is two-fold. I think that more injuries occur because the team is not “battle-tested”. Just an opinion, and the complete opposite of Bronco. I believe he’s stated that his purpose is to limit injuries. I’m not sure that experience has proven that. He still seems to have as many or more injuries as a result of his practice scheme. I also think that in order for our defense to perform to the best of their ability in a system based upon a lot of thinking rather than sheer athletic talent, they have to have more time scrimmaging, seeing and reacting to offensive sets and positioning of players. Studying the playbook or reviewing it in the classroom won’t cut it. I played rugby at BYU, and there was absolutely no replacement for actual playing time to see the game unfold before you.
B., if the players really are getting eaten up by outside commitments as you suggest, that might be an issue worthy of addressing. However, I suspect that they’re able to meet these commitments by adjusting the timing of them, and I think that it is in keeping with the mission that Mendenhall has set forth, and that should be inspiring to the players rather than detracting from their performance.
Jim, I think that we can and should expect more. I believe that there are elite LDS players out there, I believe that Mendenhall has created the atmosphere at BYU where many will be attracted to it, and one of the biggest recruiting coups that I think has happened is the recruiter named Jake Heaps. Talk about a great way to get a great team. Have a star recruit contacting guys and saying, “Hey, let’s get together and form a team that’s gonna kick butt!” It’s like being out on the playground and collecting a bunch of the best players to form a team. If I’m a wide receiver, the idea of having the guy throwing to me calling me up and saying, let’s go for it is pretty enticing.
IMO, there are three big hurdles for the MWC and BYU, and we’ve got about 1 ½ of them out of the way.
1. SDSU—We’ve got three really good programs who are making a name for themselves. You look at the BCS conferences, and most have exactly that—3 elite teams. The Air Force Academy will regularly be a second tier good team with occasional years of being really good. We need one more team like that, and SDSU seems the one closest to being able to pull that off. They live in a great recruiting area, have an enticing program, and if they can return to the winning ways of the 70s, they’ll be the second second tier team we need in our conference to make us look respectable.
2. Funding—you want good recruiting? A few years ago we dropped the number of seats available in LES over on the east side? Do you know why? So we could make more money. We now take in extra money equivalent to another home game because of that decision to develop the nice seats on the east side. Where does that money go? Did you know that not one cent from the university goes to the athletic department? The university decided long ago that they never wanted people to question why the church would fund athletics, so ALL of the money used for the football team comes from ticket sales, merchandising, and fundraising. You want to be elite? Look at the kind of cash spent at Ohio State, Florida and USC for their football teams. They have no problem getting assistant coaches out to recruit guys because they’ve got oodles of cash to pay for the trips.
3. Get into a BCS bowl—we’re gonna be the last ones. The “experts” still regard us in the same boat with Utah and TCU because we won the NC in 1984, but the shine on that can’t last too much longer. Utah’s got two games, TCU should have one this year… we really need one in the next 2-3 years to keep up.
Really only one thing will solve our issue and it could happen two different ways.
1. BYU and Utah get brought in to the Pac 10.
2. The MWC becomes a BCS conference.
Without that we will be competing against teams with more resources, better exposure, and ultimately better talent.
Until then I am very happy with the job Bronco has done and 11-2 every year with the potential to capture lightning in a bottle is a lot better than where we were in the Crowton Era.
This year’s recruiting class should help as well! In Jake we trust!
Boise St. will go undefeated this year and many are saying they STILL won’t get into a BCS game. That’s not the respect I want to have, nor is it a sign of an “elite” program.
Football doesn’t change, it is and always will be all about players, scheme and coaching.
In my opinion all 3 can get better at BYU even though for the most part we have improved a lot over the last several years.
Am I happy with the recent progress, yes. Am I satisfied that what we have now is the best we can do… no.
I notice a lot of you have talked about BYU not landing some of the top LDS recruits. Just because someone was born and raised LDS, doesn’t mean that they want to come to BYU. I am LDS. I didn’t want to go to BYU. I bet that the Cougars land 90% of the LDS kids who are serious about the church. If you look at the LDS athletes at other school, they rarely go on missions.
I think that BYU will continue to land better athletes. For those of you who think we need to recruit Non LDS athletes, go look at Markells recruiting article. Crowton recruited a lot of non LDS talent, and the majority of those players got kicked out or quit, and a handful of them were accused of sexual assault.
I think that if the trend of solid players coming to BYU we can continue to supplement that with the occassional non LDS athlete, i.e Chambers, Logan.
Go Cougars!
Staff, this is off point, but my friend and I were talking about who makes the position changes on offence and defence during a game, between games, and who puts together the depth chart to begin the season? Who make the final decisions and who all are involved. A example: QB next year, who would evaluate and make the decision. How many coaches would be involved?
thanks, this is a great site.
Go COUGS
a comment about BSU, I heard on the radio the other day, an ESPN analysis, or reporter mentioned that the main reason schools dont want to bring Boise in to play them is Boise wants a million dollars to go there instead of a home and home. I think that teams being scared or nervous is a small part of that.
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