Bronco’s Prospectus
Bronco’s 8-10 year prospectus:
Bronco has been getting a lot of heat lately from the fans and the media for his governing principles and creeds guiding the BYU football program. “Consistency” is no longer an appealing word to us. Hearing “Execution” makes us annoyed. Our formula seems outdated and sub par compared to the elite programs in the country. Bronco’s vocabulary has lulled all of you to sleep and you are no longer happy with a 10-2 season and a visit to Vegas for caffeinated beverages and the sad entertainment provided by the schmucks gambling their money away. If we aren’t winning the conference title it’s almost like the rest of the season is an arduous trek towards the end of the season. You probably feel it would have been better to lose to Oklahoma if only we could run the table in conference and get ourselves a ring. We criticize that we can’t recruit speed because of the honor code, that Coach Hill doesn’t blitz enough, our corners are to short and slow and our coaches don’t spend enough time preparing etc. etc..
Well I have some news for you people….Bronco could really care less what everyone or anyone thinks about the way he runs his program, (besides his boss and maybe his wife). Anything that you say negative about him or his program he uses as motivation to throw it back in all of your faces later on. He puts a figurative chip on his shoulder and trudges on down the path that he visually paved as he embarked on his head coach journey. The fact is, he doesn’t like fans or media period. You are all ignorant bystanders that have no control over his program or his “Prospectus”. In the end, he will make you like him! When his plan finally comes to fruition and he hands you a National Championship, you will love him and he still won’t really care that you love him, because he knows that next season you might hate him when he loses.
So let me tell you about his 8-10 year prospectus. If you have ever been to a fireside held by our team, you have probably heard the very personal story of Coach Mendenhall falling to his knees and praying about how he should lead his program. In the ensuing months, with the inspiration that he received he was able to conjure up a solid “Prospectus” for reaching the ultimate goal of a National Championship. I can tell you right now, he didn’t see a National Championship before his 8 year mark as a head coach. He is a very logical person, obsessed with reading, social behavior and constant improvement. As soon as he received the head-coaching job he inquired into the minds of elite business consultants. He delved into books on how to run and manage a superior company. He’s taken all that he proved worthy and implemented those principles into his program.
His creeds and principles are set up as such to recruit and attract an elect group of kids. His ultimate goal is to able to walk away from the program and have it run without him. His idea is that with the proper leadership and management, the players will eventually be running the program. When I was playing, he constantly delegated more and more responsibility on the players and leaders of our team. He made us accountable to the program and to each other. He’s now recruited many of his future and vocal leaders. These leaders are doing their own recruiting for Pete’s sake….. This is Bronco’s best recruiting class ever.
In Bronco’s prospectus he has always focused on conference titles and winning a bowl game. He never spoke of National Championships or BCS games during my tenure. This is because he knows that his NC is coming in his 8-10 year mark. By that time he will have recruited the type of kids that he sees leading his program to perfection.
Do I think he can do it? Yeah, I do actually. I think Bronco has the formula to do it and he is recruiting the type of kid that can win it for him. And he wants to shove it in all of our faces. One thing you have to understand about Bronco is that he loves when anyone disrespects him because in his mind, he will eventually prove just how much of an imbecile you are for questioning his thought process or how he runs his program.
What do you guys think?
Criddle
great insight and article. i personally disagree with your second and third paragraph. maybe it’s true. actually i know it probably is. and that’s a good thing, but you shouldn’t vocalize the fact that you think fans are “ignorant bystanders” or use words like “critic”, “outsider” and “people not close to the program” all the time.
what he says creates a chasm between him and the fans. maybe he wants or likes that. i don’t know…but that doesn’t mean it’s the only or the right way to go about things.
i love bronco. i love what he’s done. i love his vision. i love our team and appreciate the players and coaches. i don’t really care that he doesn’t care about the fans. i just think he needs a PR coach to help him keep throwing out softballs for the media and fans to grab and misinterpret and manipulate.
thanks for the write-up
Ben,
I don’t know how Bronco would feel about you putting words in his mouth, so to speak. You make it sound has if Bronco hates all fans when I think that is not the case. He may dislike some that are a very vocal minority, but I do not think that he would do the things that he does, as far as fan interaction goes, if he hated all fans.
I wish there was a way for Coach Mendenhall, Max Hall, etc., to know that there are those of us out here that are very proud of the way they represent themselves and BYU on and off the field. There are those of us that dislike the typical win or else fans as much as those mentioned above. Unfortunately, it seems that the negative fans get the press. Anyway Ben, if you get the chance pass that along.
Ironically, it are these same fans that in a much smaller scale have made me move away from doing my weekly highlights. It gets tough to put them together when all you get is criticism on song choice, or highlighting a losing effort. I could go on and on…
Go Cougs!!!
I guess I just wonder, if Bronco dislikes the fans who/why/what does he want a NC for? For himself? The University? President Monson? Coach Mendenhall is a winner, and as long as he wins he’ll have a job in Provo. Setting the NC as a goal, then failing to achieve that goal, will simply provide fodder for fans until it comes to pass. Then we’ll memorialize him and name the field after him.
So is his idol Dr. House?
Yo BC, I think this article is awesome. I love Bronco’s approach, his vision, and what he has done for BYU. I have never had a problem with Bronco because I was in the Cougar Marching Band when he became head coach. He came and spoke to us a few times. After looking into his eyes and hearing things said that he doesn’t say to just anyone, I was convinced he was a competitor, he was intelligent, he was for real, he was long-term, and that he was totally sincere with what he would say and do.
Last year I kinda had my doubts or whatever. But that all changed this year when I started attending the KSL Coach’s Show on Wednesdays. It’s so easy for us fans to talk each other into a frenzy and convince ourselves that we actually know a little bit about what is going on and what is good for BYU football. I mean, check out the previous blog post. All of us are writing up exactly what BYU needs to do to get better, and we say it as though it is obvious and we wonder why the coaches don’t see it as clearly as we do. If that is what we think, we are seriously kidding ourselves. Bronco knows what he is doing. He is in control of this program. Criticizing a person like Bronco is such a stupid thing to do. He has never done anything but work his butt off. If anyone reading this didn’t read that great quote Walt posted a few days ago by Teddy Roosevelt (about how a critic is a meaningless timid soul), go read it. It is truer than true.
With regards to BC using terms like, “critic” and “ignorant bystander,” I have no problem whatsoever. Criddle is right. I think everything he wrote is correct and people who disagree just have a problem with their own pride and insignificance. Besides, I prefer reading content from someone who is totally honest and says it the way it is, rather than from someone who will sugar coat it for all the people who care WAY too much and who might get offended.
I’ve felt that the criticizing fans were impatient, short-sighted children as well. I’m glad Bronco uses it as motivation, but I can’t think about anything but how retarded a person must be to seriously suggest benching Max in favor of a back up. Seriously– I feel bad that the Cougars have these people on their side. LES can be a trying place on Saturday in the midst of these clowns. Ty Detmer was king of the interception and got his team blown out more than once, but the losers forget that when casting stones at Max.
BYU is on the UPSWING. Has anyone noticed these recruiting classes coming in? Is that a coincidence? Bronco said– and I believe him– that the best is yet to come. Thanks for the post, Criddle.
I think I would listen to Ben’s show -on the radio- if I was in Utah! You have a great voice Ben and it hasn’t changed a bit. Rap on Rev.!
Been a seaon ticket holder over 30 years. Only missed 5 home games. Traveled to FSU, UCLA, USC, ND, Washington, Arizona, all the bowl games and now I find out the coach dislikes me and uses me as motivation to win to spite me. Cool.
“We lovin’ it! We lovin’ it! For all y’all doubters, B. Bradley said ‘Hi, haters’. Doubt that! Doubt that!” – Brandon Bradley, Sept 5, 2009
Thank goodness Bronco doesn’t give any credence to disloyal fans. Bronco loves fans who are passionate, loyal, and respectful of his program but has no patience for everyone else. He seeks advice from the very best and has an excellent pulse on his program. Few fans can make suggestions that he hasn’t already thought about or heard elsewhere. So quickly we forget about how far the program has come since the Crowton years. We have every reason to be extremely proud of this programn and its record of success.
Unfortunately BYU (nor hardly any other program) can go undefeated every year so there will continue to be some disappointing losses. Let’s revel in his incredible passion for the team and the mission of the university. He’ll take us far so let’s just sit back and enjoy the incredible journey.
Bronco needs to realize that most fans aren’t like the minority of idiots that think they know football better than he.
Fans need to realize that this truly is just a game, which does bring some positive attention to the church and BYU.
Fans also need to realize that there aren’t very many teams that go undefeated. Ten win seasons are great! Be happy with them. It could be worse and if we are not careful we will drive him away with ridiculous expectations.
Go look at the recruiting reports. How many 5 star athletes do we have recruited? Zero. How many does Florida, Texas, etc. have? Several each. We just can’t compete on a regular basis against those teams. I’m frankly amazed that we do as well as we do given the honor code and academic recruiting restrictions.
And, bravo to Bronco for weaving the gospel of Jesus Christ into his program. It is an awesome thing. I will give up a few wins hear and there in exchange for the high standards. Let’s hope Bronco is around for a long time!
I don’t have a problem really with anything Ben said or Bronco thinks. I know that Bronco is not infallible but I’m still one of his biggest supporters. I know it’s a process of turning a program around, especially when you’re competing against the money and power of the BCS. Not unsimilar to all the folks who expect the Mtn to be instantly as good as ESPN in quality, quantity, coverage and reach despite ESPN’s quarter century head start. It’s just not realistic.
That said, there’s a few things that seem to be a little hypocritical here. First, thinking that BYU’s fanbase is any different than any other program’s is not only short sighted but completely ignorant. Every fanbase has its vocal minority that tends to give it a bit of a black eye. Kind of the same way I feel about the radical liberals in this country. It seems the sane ones are the only ones keeping quiet. Either that, or they are just the only ones that have jobs that contribute to society and thus preclude them from a more active role in voicing their opinions.
Second, isn’t Bronco always preaching the “we don’t worry about what others think or what others are doing, we only worry about ourselves” sermon. Wanting to shove something in the face of your fans or using perceived slights as motivation kind of flies in the face of that practice. But the most disturbing thing is how much he seems to despise his very own fanbase. Again, I’d say that greater than 90% of that fanbase is fully on board and would blindly follow Bronco in to battle, even if he were to say, let’s secede from the BCS or even let’s secede from the union. But because a small minority of malcontents gets all the press, he thinks that the whole body hates him. It also seems a little hypocritical to call for the fans to be “fully invested” but then complain when they become too involved. Should people not express their disappointment when something/someone they care about makes a mistake that they believe was out of character for that thing/person? I’m not saying that the fans know more about the game than the players or the coaches but occasionally they do make mistakes. If this weren’t so, there would be no need for Bronco to “make some changes” as he is prone to say. Sometimes those mistakes are bigger than others. And it’s always a bit disappointing when something isn’t fulfilling its potential.
Finally, let’s get one thing clear. Booing is by no means a sign of hate or distrust. In fact, it along with cheering, is about the only means for a fanbase to give their input. They are in fact customers or consumers of the product that is being put on the field. If they don’t like the product, should they not express their distaste? If Bronco is so big on running his program like a business, it seems that he would want to know how the consumer feels about his product and appreciate the feedback so he can make the adjustments to increase “sales” and the quality of his product. In my opinion, booing is acceptable without being considered classeless in three ways:
1. Booing opposing teams/staffs/visitors when a lack of class is shown
2. Booing refs when an incorrect call could affect the outcome of the game
3. Booing the home team when it appears they have given up before the game is over
Other than in these three situations, I agree that booing is not only classless but counterproductive. But when these circumstances arise, a little booing helps the targets of those boos know they need to make some changes.
Ben,
While I understand what Bronco is doing, he also have to be careful when he critize his fan base.
for this very fan base that he is bagging on, are the same fans that makes BYU football run.
The Cougar Club (well to do fans), Students and the poor peons who pay good money every week to support the team. They donate money, time and energy to the sports program. When BYU wanted a trainning facility, was it Lavell or Bronco who raised the money? NO, it was the fans with donations from some very wealthy people.
Yes, fans are fickle and want instant gratification. But they are still the life blood of the team.
Bronco needs to stop being so arrogant toward his fan base. For if we stop coming to games, will BYU win a NC in Bronco 8-10 year time frame?
Ask Roger Reid what happens when you alienate your fan base.
Ben-
Coach has said that he doesn’t listen to the sports radio shows, doesn’t read the papers so how would he know if he is being disrespected or not? Also, Coach Whit now has the exact same record as Coach M but he also has a perfect season in his 4th season; you don’t hear about all the organizational stuff and business models from him; just good, old-fashioned, hard-nosed football. And, his teams are 4-0 in bowl games, compared to 2-2; his teams have won bowl games in his first year when they won less than 50% of their games and after two heart breaking losses to us…they still rebounded and won their bowl games. Last year’s loss to Arizona was just totally unacceptable…to show up unprepared and still not recovered from losing to Utah and not winning the conference championship. I am OK with the firesides and saying that football is just a vehicle, etc. but in the end he is going to be judged by his success on the field. Coach Edwards has the stadium named after him but the fact is that his record in the 90’s did not measure up to that of the 80’s, his offensive and defensive coordinators were run out of town…and by the time he retired everyone was waiting for a new era. I will be criticized for saying these things but it all comes down to how you do on the field and the last two years (including this one) have not finished as well as everyone expected. I know its maybe not fair to compare Utah to our program but the fact is that Coach Whit had a very difficult act to follow and he has done a remarkable job. Finally, I think Coach Whit was a better defensive coordinator than Coach M; I never liked the gambling 3-3-5. I have always thought that the best defenses are those who get the most amount of pressure on the QB with the least amount of blitzing; Pittsburgh Steel Curtain versus Buddy Ryan’s 46. Well that’s it. I will be raked over the coals but I said what I feel.
Interesting post, Ben, and I think you are right for the most part. The media and fans really do not matter, and they will change with the tide.
My only argument is what about his influence on the players that are on the field today? Do they not deserve the chance, or is he just worried about what’s to come?
As of now, he doesn’t seem to have a good hold on thev team, their intensity, or their strategy. While I agree they have to take some responsibility, and be accountable, I truly believe that a team is only as good as it’s leader, and for now, he is consistently a 10-2 season coach, going on 4 years now (with players he recruited.) I really hope 8-10 years can change that.
I can’t remember who said it on this board, but I agree with whoever it was that said Bronco needs to quite treating this team like a business and pick up a Sports Illustrated, not a business psychology book. Coaches who have some fire, like (dare I say it) Urban Meyer, will win National Championships, not a business mogul like Donald Trump.
He can try and act like every game is the same, and I really do hope that his “execution” will shove a National Championship in my face, but we are half way there, and nothing yet.
I am hopeful about the awesome recruiting class coming up, but I have to argue that we have some VERY talented players (i.e. Pitta, Unga, Hall, Jorgenson) who have not been given the respect on the field like they should and I hope that this is not going to be a pattern. I do not want the politics that come with the business mentality to crap all over the field.
And whether he cares or not, I have to deal with work and business all week, on game day, I want some FOOTBALL!
Again, I see your point, and you definitely delivered it with some passion that is hard to deny, but I am not sure I am yet convinced that Bronco has it in him to get the team there.
With that being said, I still believe in the team, and the tradition, the honor and the spirit that drives them on the field every week.
Give me a break. I’m sorry but I doubt we will ever win a NC with his system. We can’t even play against TCU or Utah let alone a Florida or Texas. I’m sick and tired of hearing Bronco talking crap about the fans. Maybe he should do his job instead. My doubts have increased when Bronco said that he thought the TCU game last year was a fluke and that “Execution” could win the game and then we get killed by TCU again and then he admits that it may not be so. Really? I don’t like how he treats every game the same. Every freaking team in the country takes the bigger games more seriously and do whatever they can to win. Bronco doesn’t do that and well we have seen how that works out for us. I hope i’m wrong but I just don’t think it will happen.
Talk about hypocrisy…the fans don’t want bronco to critisize them at all. Yet they critisize and second guess him and his program all day long. Fans talk about bronco running them out of the stadium with his critisims but its bronco who we should be worried about running off.
Fans are customers. The customer is always right. In my business I have to eat it when the customer has a complaint whether they are right or wrong. If I don’t they quit supporting my business.
I love Bronco and in many ways I think he is running a better business than LaVell did. I am on board and fear that he will not stay as long as I want him to. Having said that I hate the Fan criticism that is going on right now. I have quit reading the boards because they have moved from discussing football to disecting the program for any minute flaw they can find. I think it makes them feel like they are intelligent when they find a problem that they percieve Broncos crew is not smart enough to know about.
I do fear that Bronco may be alienating his customers with his comments as of late. When a customers complaint is so far off base the temptation is almost to great to hold back. As business owners we have to look at the big picture.
As fans we are lacking. We could do so much more to build the program if our efforts were more positive. If our Fan base was examined with the same degree of scrutiny we would not hold up as well as Bronco does.
Thanks for the perspective, BC.
I’ll be honest, I get a little annoyed that bronco lets the criticism get under his skin so much. Show me a coach at any level in this country who is not second guessed and questioned on a regular basis. That’s part of the business. That’s why he’s making a million bucks a year. It’s a high pressure job that’s open to public scrutiny- if we don’t like what we see we let it be known.
I love Bronco. He’s the right man for the job and I wouldn’t swap him for any coach. I’d stand behind him if he won 4 games a year, for personal reasons. He can do whatever he wants behind closed doors, and tell his team and his wife that the fans don’t know Jack Johnson, but in public he needs to be a bit more careful when he criticizes the fan base. It’s true, we don’t see the big picture like he does- but don’t tell us that. Some will take offense, and it will only give the media pinheads fuel for their fire. Nod your head and say we’re working on it, then continue on the path to perfection.
Go cougars!
Hmmm. Kyle uses disrespectful comments from other teams and players to instill a chip on his shoulder and as motivation for a game win. Bronco uses… hatred of his own fans as motivation? Perhaps you might be overstating it a little? Because an unspoken assumption of an 8-year prospectus march to an NC is that the fans continue to come and they continue to fill the stadium and the team continues to rake in the money.
I like what Bronco is doing at BYU, but maybe just as the fans continue to take 10-win seasons for granted, so too do the coaches take sellout stadiums for granted. Look at TCU for a team that constantly wins in an empty stadium.
Good point about TCU and their fan attendance but I think that is what separates Bronco from a lot of other coaches. He may come off as a bit cold and indifferent to peoples feelings about the team, but he understands that fan and booster support are vital to the success of the program. This one of the reasons why he makes the team do firesides and why he’s always holding functions where he gives a speech and detailed powerpoint presentations about BYU and his vision for the team. But no matter who is coaching, as long as BYU is winning they will always fill up their stadium. I mean what else is there to do in Provo?
I can’t fault Bronco’s model for developing the BYU football program. I would expect him to build a program that has all of the elements that would/could make BYU football a true national power. I also believe that fans have a right to expect that program to be on a glidepath that will fulfill those objectives.
Unfortunately, college football does not conform to “management by objectives” or other business models. There are intangibles to the game that defy rational business thought processes. That’s what makes college football so compelling. I could recommend that Bronco develop a “psychology of college football” model to parallel his business approach but I fear that would also miss the essence of the game.
I want to use the Civil War as an example to ask a question. General McClellan developed the Army of the Potomac into a formidable fighting force. He was not the type of general that could fight that army. It took General Grant, a true fighting man, to lead that army to victory. Is Bronco our Grant or is he our McClellan?
I love Bronco in so many ways. He has done great things for the program, and I hope he continues to do it. I hope we continue to win 10 games a season under him. I’m proud of our consistent, season-ending top-25 ranking, and I know that a large part of it is due to him.
That being said, nicely done on calling all fans ignorant. Admittedly, we don’t have control over the program in any way, we don’t know all of the intricacies of what goes on behind the scenes, and we don’t know the time and effort Bronco pours into the success of the program. We are ignorant when it comes to those aspects of BYU football.
Also, I’ll admit that amongst our ranks (the fans) there are the ignorants: The bandwagon-jumpers; the ignorantly critical.
But don’t throw us all under that bus. That’s — how shall we put it — ignorant. Being critical, or pointing out that there is room for improvement, has never equated with ignorance.
I think a lot of the commentors are taking what Ben has written a little too literally. From my limited experience, it seems more like Coach Mendenhall doesn’t care whether fans think we should bend the Honor Code for football players, just to get the better athlete. He doesn’t care if fans think that a throwing play on 3rd-and-goal is too obvious and we should have pounded it up the middle. He doesn’t care that we love that the Cougars have been ranked in both major polls at the end of each of the last three seasons. That’s what he doesn’t care about.
It’s not that he doesn’t care about the fans personally. I’m sure he does, and that he wants us to be able to enjoy watching the team win and the players reach their full potential. When Criddle says that he would love to throw it back in our faces, he means that Coach would like to never bend to what the vocal minority wants, and win despite what everyone says.
I don’t disagree with you saying Bronco in a way doesn’t care what fans say or think. Part of me thinks he does care otherwise he wouldn’t make a big deal about not “listening to talk radio or reading the newspapers.” Bronco goes out of his way to let us know he doesn’t really care what we think. I think for a lot of people this personality trait of Bronco tends to rub some people the wrong way, mostly local media. Bronco is like the politician that everyone loves when the economy is great, but when it is bad he sort of buries himself because he fails to execute at the highest level his thoughts to the media and fans as though it would be a waste of his time, because it would be impossible for us to comprehend the extrinsic details of his strategy and thoughts inedible leading to his popularity lowering and criticism rising.
Bronco continues to makes a big deal about being booed during his first game when he didn’t go for the 4th down. I didn’t boo out loud, but in my mind and heart I did. (I honestly do this about 10 times every game so it is not unusual) If Bronco had come out and explained why he punted on 4th down instead of just criticizing the fans that some of them pay $4,000 a year for season tickets and drive 10 hours to get to games I think he would of been in a lot better position. I think Bronco had a good reason to punt on 4th down even if I didn’t agree with him and he should of explained that and realize we are not all sheep (although some “true fans” are apparently and more then willing to let you know if you are even the least bit critical) and we can accept his rational for making that decision even if we disagree and move on. I just don’t believe even Bronco believes he is above ’second guessing’ or constructive criticism even if it does come from uneducated fans. However, his comments and attitude way too often can sometimes come across that way because I never felt like I was booing Bronco in my heart, just his poor decision to punt on 4th down. As a major college football head coach that is part of what you get paid the big bucks for is to make those tough decisions and then OWN them. Besides, we lost that game, so I never thought that was the best example for Bronco to hold up and say everyone that booed him was wrong. Me personally it just comes across too much like whining.
There is a lot to like and even love about Bronco. I would take the 10-2 years over the Crowton years any day. Plus I don’t really feel like he has the program in a rout like a lot of people think, just a long straight path heading toward the mountain again.
That said, I can’t wait to go watch BYU play in the national championship game in the next 3-5 years.
You make Bronco sound like a royal prick. Based on his recent statements, maybe he is. As long as he keeps winning…
Well said, Ben. I think what Bronco is doing with the program is far more important than wins on the football field, though wins are very gratifying to everyone who follows the team. What I admire most about him is how he leads; how he prepares his players to become the best they can be in all facets of their lives; how he uses the program to further the overarching mission of the University and the Church–which is, after all, the weightier matter. Short-sighted fans often forget that. They are not on BYU’s board of trustees; they are not rogue shareholders of BYU athletics stock–regardless of the sense of entitlement they may think they have as a result of the volume of money they donate or their cris de ceour of BYU sports. They are donors, they are fans, they are supporters, they are friends and members of the program, and that is all. The football program really is a model program in operation, in philosophy, etc. No question, the wins are great and it attracts the attention and respect of the nation. Yet, on a higher level, what I find most pleasing about Bronco’s philosophy is that the MEANS justifies the END; NOT the end justifying the means–and while most programs would take the latter point of view, Bronco follows a more principled route, and is still successful–wins and all. So, kudos to Bronco and the entire football program.
After the Wyoming game Mark Lyons quoted Teddy Rosevelt on the post game, and I was impressed.
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
Source: http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com/trsorbonnespeech.html
Hey guys! Thanks for all the comments. There’s a lot of good insight there.
First off, i’m just giving you a players perspective as I see it. I think if you asked any former player under coach M. that they would say that he really doesn’t like media and critiquing fans all that much. Of course he realizes that he needs fans and boosters to support his program financially. He just gets annoyed when they begin to overstep their bounds and tell him how to run his program. He has his program set, and he is going to follow it without “major” changes.
Second of all, you are right he doesn’t listen to media, but those same media members that critique all day are asking him formulated questions in press conferences. If you haven’t ever been interviewed by a media member, then I have news for you. Many times they have their thesis already planned out. They just want to question you or manipulate you to say what they want you to say in order to validate their thesis.
Coach Mendenhall knows when he is being criticized. Does he have to be careful when he criticizes fans? Yeah i think so. Bronco is a straight shooter… dry and sarcastic. So when you question him he will tell you how it is in his mind. He will never pass up a question or say… I don’t want to answer that question. We should love him for that. I do! I love the man. Behind my father he is one of my heroes b/c of the man he is. He isn’t a prick either. He just gets to run his program his way and maybe he is struggling a little with PR… can’t blame the guy, it’s really tough to be in such a high profile position with so much placed on your head. I don’t envy him. He has a lot to live up to, and there’s even more pressure on him than Lavell I’d say.
Anywho, just some thoughts. I’m glad it caused a decent discussion though. But, if you don’t believe me, ask some former players about how Bronco feels about fans and media in general.
Criddle
Ben,
I like that Bronco is building a base system so that it will be sustained after he leaves, the problem with that of course is when he leaves the new HC may or may not want to use it.
Bronco really needs to overcome himself. He has to stop having coaching shows for the fans, rather he tapes the interviews after his games. What’s up with that, Yes, I understand that he wants to be home with his family, but when you take on the HC for a team, you also need to meet the needs of the fans.
I do a lot of things that I really don’t like doing in my employment, but I do it because it is for the best of the team. Bronco needs to learn that fact.
BYUJack,
I remember Bronco did try to explain his decision to punt on 4th down in a locker room interview after the game. His reasoning was that he had hoped special teams could pin Boston College and his defense could force a 3 and out and get the ball in good field position but unfortunately that isn’t what happened. He did say that in hindsight he probably should’ve gone for it. Of course he hates getting booed but who doesn’t? In my opinion, I’m glad he brings it to people’s attention instead of tolerating it. People often don’t realize how impolite they’re being until someone points it out to them. When a team is struggling at home, the last thing they need is their own fans turning on them. But boos and cheers is just something that comes with the territory.
I think this whole discussion, and those on other boards, highlight the only real failing of the program at this point (people will always have gripes/criticisms as that is the nature of any large organization, but I see only one real failing). That is, we just came off a nice 52 – 0 bounceback win but all the talk is about the poor relationship between the team/coach and fans.
I think those most in control should be evaluating why that is. Coach has shown a good ability to step back and evaluate internal parts of his program and make corrections and the same process should probably be used to look at the relationship with fans.
When it starts to bother even those of us who have followed and donated to the program for decades without reservation (even during the down times), that is something that should be addressed.
Ben – thanks for the thoughts. As you alluded to, time will tell. Stepping back and looking at what has been accomplished given the state of the program in 2004 is pretty impressive. That being said, I think my two frustrations with Bronco are the following:
1- When I fly in to town to watch BYU play, I will boo if, late in the 3rd quarter BYU punts the ball at the 50 yard line when losing by multiple touchdowns. (See Boston College, FSU and TCU) Play to win the game! If you lose 52-7 because you give the ball back to TCU in good field position, versus 38-7 because you punt, you still got shellacked. Give your best weapon, your offense, a chance to get you back into the game. Sure it’s unlikely you will win, but don’t preach “competitive greatness” to your kids, and then coach like a quitter. I won’t boo college athletes, but I will boo college coaches.
2 – His critique that fans know nothing. Sure, it’s possible I can’t discern if a given interception was Max’s fault, or if McKay should shoulder the blame because he ran the wrong route. Similarly, it might be hard for me to know if it was Rich or Doman that had responsibility for the RB running the wheel route. However, I can tell when the players come out flat in big games and I can tell when there is a talent discrepancy. Football isn’t genetics or physics, your eyes don’t lie when they see poor effort and superior athleticism. For Bronco to assert that fans know little to nothing is foolishness. (Whether he’s right or wrong, it’s terrible PR.)
All that said, no one is perfect and Bronco has done a great job so far, perhaps a better job than anyone else could have done under the circumstances. I hope the trend continues. As for winning a NC, count me as a doubter. Having attended games when top 5 teams play, BYU has a long way to go to get close to that talent level, especially on defense.
Personally I don’t get the sense that Bronco dislikes the fans. He dislikes ignorance and disloyalty. He dislikes uninformed criticism. But if he disliked the fans I don’t think he’d be doing the Wednesday night coach’s show and patiently answering their questions.
One thing that really bugs me is how he can say something and his statements then be dissected and stretched in every direction. It’s like the boards and talk shows are full of sports fundamentalists and Bronco’s words are their Bible. They divide them into chapter and verse and then put one or two under the microscope, parsing every little word and arguing endlessly about its meaning.
Who can blame Bronco for hating that? He incorporates proven business leadership principles into his program and people think he’s ignoring the things he could learn from Sports Illustrated. He tries to emphasize the best preparation possible for every game and people accuse him of treating them all the same. He maintains a level head in the face of adversity and people accuse him of lacking passion. He puts football in its rightful place in life and people go nuts because it isn’t number one on the list.
When we see get people going down to the front to yell their opinions at the team when they’re getting beat, it is plain that there are a lot of folks who take all of this way too seriously. Thanks for the insight that seems to indicate Bronco is able to tune all that out or at least use it to motivate himself. I’m relieved because I could hardly blame him were he one day to say, “I don’t need this” and take a hike. Let’s hope he can endure to the end. I’m confident there will be a lot of amazing accomplishments ahead if he does.
Some of you are completely unrealistic. I can’t believe that I keep hearing how shabby the program is and how it is going in the wrong direction. THIS IS A HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM!
Some of you win at all costs folks that expect perfect seasons need to go root for Florida, where they sit a guy down for half a game when he tries to gouge out the eye of another player. They can have Urban Meyer. I’ll take integrity any day – even if it is a little on the grumpy side. And, guess what, even Florida and other teams that have much better recruiting pools to choose from still have off games.
I played collegiate ball and coached HS. Mostly with wins, but I understand the dynamics of winning and losing. Sometimes you lose even when you have done everything within your power to win. The armchair coaches out there just can’t understand that sometimes another team is going to win. They have as much time to prepare as you. And, if they have better athletes they are likely going to win. Yes, sometimes an underdog pulls a fast one, but not on a routine basis.
It is doubtful that we will ever win a National Championship, although I hope I am wrong. How can you compete the major programs with the recruiting limitations BYU has to deal with. What percentage of HS athletes want to come to a Mormon school with strict honor code? And of those that do want to come, how many can meet the academic standards? The answer is far less than 1% of the pool.
But, that is ok. We just need to be very happy with winning seasons, annual bowl games, and frequent conference championships. I’m pleased that Bronco and company are able to ranked so highly consistently, but you people that are never happy unless we are ranked #1 at end of season need to go somewhere else (of course, you will still be displeased most years).
Thanks, everyone, for the comments that are just proving Ben and Bronco right.
Robb Cundick – you are spot on! very insightful. You should write for the local papers.
If Bronco ran the program on the whims of the fans he would be an idiot and we would have run him out of town a few years ago. I think Crowton (who in everyday life is a great guy) did this and it made him a terrible head coach.
The reality is the relationship between a Head Coach & his fans is like a relationship between a Husband and a Wife. Its a Love/Hate thing for both sides, but for most of the days they are good not bad.
I think Bronco will make adjustments (changes). He just won’t do them with a emotional knee-jerk reaction. We did see some changes in the Wyomning game. And Bronco told us as much. He said “We are going to make some adjustments, not so much in personal.” What he is saying is: I have seen that if we are going to take the next step up we have to change some things we are doing. He has done this in the past also. Recruiting has made adjustments, offense and defense have made adjustments. It just doesn’t happen after one game.
Ben,
I appreciate the article. I listened to pre-game, watched the game and listened to Bronco’s comments at half-time and then listened to Bronco’s statements after the game and I felt chastized. I felt the players played a statement game but it wasn’t a statement to the other teams in the conference – it was a statement to the fans who complain about the coaching and the fan’s perceived lack of scheming for games. See what happens when we execute? It was a statement that the program will win with it’s high execution.
Great article Criddle for the most part I agree with everything. However, I have to say that I disagree with your comment of how “Bronco doesn’t like fans”. Sure, fans can be a thorn in his side at times, but I know he appreciates fans and treats fans with respect. I’ve had the privilege of being present during several KSL coaches shows, and asking him questions personally. He has always respected my questions and provided good answers. I do remember comments about how he and last year’s punter (can’t remember his name) had 1 thing in common and that is that they were both booed during their first game. So I think I can see your point, he’ll jab out at the fan base occasionally, but I think he has targeted those critical of the program and not the fan base in general. I stand behind Bronco 100%, that being said I hope he listens to some of that criticism because there is a lot of truth behind much of it, and I think much more Bronco can learn. Your example of secondary with more speed and height is a legitimate concern and I hope something that the program can make a priority in recruiting, not to take anything away from your excellent play Criddle. However, talent and athleticism is a critical cog in the hunt for a NC.
You’re nuts.
Look… here is my problem with Bronco and his approach with the fans.
Last year we witnessed a kid name Tim Tebow lose a game that he shouldn’t… it was embarrassing for the program, fans and players. That game was played on their HOME field where the fans did in fact BOO their team during the game.
So what was Tebows response to this? Did he go after the fans? NO… his quote was, “I’m sorry. I’m extremely sorry. We were hoping for an undefeated season. That was my goal, something Florida’s never done here. But I promise you one thing: a lot of good will come out of this.
“You have never seen any player in the entire country play as hard as I will play the rest of this season and you’ll never see someone push the rest of the team as hard as I will push everybody the rest of this season, and you’ll never see a team play harder than we will the rest of this season.”
Okay, some will point to Bronco admitting that he didn’t have the team fully prepared… basically saying the same old tired comments that he spills out after each loss and yet he continues with his same old approach to each game.
But now he has thrown into the mix of rebuking the fans with subtle back handed slaps, and it’s starting to come from the players and the rest of the coaching staff.
This isn’t any sign of leadership or humility… it’s a sign of being MENTALLY SOFT.
Now lets look at last weeks game in which Wyoming, not a traditional power by any means and doesn’t have the same weight or fan base that BYU has. They were throughally embarrassed on their HOME field in which the fans did BOO their team and LEFT at half time. So what would be the Wyoming coaches response? Did he call out the fans for not rallying around the team during their darkest hour? NO….
He said, “I thought our program had improved. It’s an embarrassment. I’m embarrassed and I apologize. It was the worst-ever game I’ve seen by a football team.”
At some point Bronco needs to step it up and show a bit more passion WIN or LOSE! Stop using wasteful energy towards criticizing the fans and calling them uneducated, no matter how you meant it. Man up, admit more than just a failure to prepare your team… actually explore the true definition of Change which is a sign of humility and GROWTH. I’m not asking for him to beg and plead with fans but I wouldn’t be biting the hands of those that do PASSIONATELY support the team win or lose.
Bronco has been cheered far more than he has been Jeered… he needs to remember that.
I agree with you Ben for the most part. I also appreciated you during your playing days when you left it all on the field. I think you have truly earned the right to defend Bronco and the B.Y.U. program. I have been a Cougar fan for many years and will continue to be. There is however one question I would like to ask. It seems that Utah can win big games. It seems that generally, Oklahoma was an exception, that we struggle in big games. I am estatic with ten win seasons, but I still have some honest questions. In other words, I think that our talent level is closer to T.C.U. than we have shown the last two times that we have played. At the risk of being labeled a non- believer, help me reconcile that. Thank you in advance.
some excellent comments from some excellent fans. my opinion of BYU fans has been elevated after reading this discussion (most of it anyway). One of you authors needs to share some of these compliments with Bronco and other coaches (after the season is over). My sense is that they need a boost (especially after the ridiculous egging incident for Coach Hill).
Ben Criddle you are the man. Finally someone else sees it the way I do.
The cougars are the greatest team in the world and they absolutly will win many national championships in the coming years. This team is on a streek of 3 strait 10+ win seasons, going on four after we beat those lousy yewts this year.
The media cannot continue to ignore us. We beet OU this year, hands down the greatest win the MWC has ever seen. We carry this conference, and will continue to do so. Those lousy yewts and there perfect season last year will be just a blip on the radar after they lose 4 games this year, getting embarrassed by tcu, and BYU and lose in there bowl game after finally facing a decent team in a bowl. They always luck out and play teams that suck, are overrated, or simply don’t want to be there. Just once, I would like to see them beat a good team in bowl game, like UCLA. Arizona would have killed them last year.
In Bronco I trust. He is absolutely the right man for the job. His righteousness combined with his football knowledge and coaching ability will lead us to the promised land of national championships once again.
Those silly yewts think they have it good finishing #2 in the nation, but they’ll never have what we have, a national championship. And they’ll never have what’s in our future, many more national championships. It’s good to be a Cougar. I am so glad we don’t have Kyle Whittingham as our coach. The only thing he has proved is that he can loose to unlv 27-0. He is a horrible coach, so happy he’s at yewtah so we could get Bronco. Bronco will leed us. Onward and upward. There will come a time in the vary near future when national championships will run through Provo.
I like the result on the field. Bronco has made BYU very good. I am really disappointed with what you’ve posted. Maybe you have construed Bronco poorly. If you have, you should clarify. What I got from your post is that Bronco is unteachable, prideful, paranoid, and fearful. He seems to hate the fans and you confirm it. Why would I or anyone else give 5 or 6 figure donations to a person who thinks so little of me? Why would I spend hours in my car and in a freezing stadium on Saturdays for a coach that thinks I’m one of the bad guys. I’m hoping Bronco and you are both sadly lacking in good PR advice. Good PR is to put your message out there and have it heard. Bronco is doing the opposite. At this point, the fans are only seeing the option the media is giving them. The option has some logic. Therefore, the fans believe that is what is going on. Bronco needs to tell his story, embrace his fanbase, and most of all acknowledge that he only gets to run his “Prospectus” as he has outlined it because of the fans. IOW Criddle, he needs to humble himself, learn from the fans and the media, stop thinking everyone is out to get him, quit crying about being booed, stop being scared that someone will disagree with him, and put his Prospectus and plan out there for the fans to see and understand. If his vision is inspiring, he needs to inspire us so we will support him. Otherwise, to paraphrase a movie, we’ll drink the sand because that is our only option.
He doesnt care? Why does he constantly crack back at the fan base then? He is too thin skinned, thats one of his biggest problems.
Ben,
This is my favorite post ever on DSB.
Here are my thoughts and I’m grateful to finally post them since I’ve been thinking them for a long time:
We, BYU fans need to learn humility and be able to take criticism. They (we) need a thicker skin. The reactions from many fans about Bronco’s “ignorant” comment tells you a lot about whether that comment was probably aimed at them or not. I heard it and thought, “Yeah, there are a lot of ignorant fans out there.” and then went on with my life. Why? Because I assumed that it didn’t apply to me! I in no way took it personally. To get offended by his comment is to be too proud to admit that fans do behave badly, especially when they are passionate. And it is ignorant to be angry at Bronco and the team and forget where it has come from and just how obnoxious some BYU fans can be.
Bronco isn’t stoic Lavell, but I remember when even Lavell canceled his Coaches Show due to the criticisms of “ignorant” fans.
If we want the team to resolve to play better, shouldn’t we resolve to be better fans? Did Oklahoma’s fans boo their team? Do Notre Dame fans? I am not aware of it if they did. Those fans are classy in a way that we BYU fans can only hope to be. So if Coach Mendenhall “coaches” us to be better fans then I am happy to listen.
I’m not saying that fans can’t complain (I certainly have), but fans should always be humble and keep things in perspective. There is a difference between constructive criticism and whining. Paying money to the program (i.e. tickets, souvenirs, etc.) may justify my right to complain, but that doesn’t mean that Bronco can’t call me out if he thinks I behave badly. And I can take it. However, if I’m not guilty of the bad behavior I don’t have to take his message personally and get defensive about it.
Woody – where have you been for the last 3 or so seasons??? BYU doesn’t run the 3-3-5 anymore.
I’ve been saying this for weeks. BYU FANS HAVE DEVELOPED AN EXTREME CASE OF REVISIONIST HISTORY. They are measuring Bronco and Max up to standards that NEVER EXISTED. Name 1 big game against a good team that BYU won with LaVell. Miami. That’s it. 1984 they beat a ranked Pitt team that finished around .500, and played an average Michigan in the bowl. All the elements combined to push them to the top of the pile and they were the only undefeated team. BYU’s record in bowl games is atrocious. Jim McMahon and Marc Wilson never QB’d a BYU team into the top 10. Only 1 QB won the Heisman at BYU, not all of them. But you’d never know that listening to the fans. That Heisman winner threw for 121 TD’s and 65 INT’s, a less that 2:1 ratio. Max has 82 TD’s and 37 INT’s, which is better than 2:1.
I just don’t understand where BYU fan’s distaste comes from. Where was the furor when Sarkisian lost his only big game in 96 against Washington that cost the team a Bowl-Alliance berth? (Not to throw Sark under the bus, by any means. He actually manned-up and won a bowl game).
One more thing:
Garn,
I, for one, have always loved and appreciated your videos and would love to have you do more…
Brett and Oceanographer – excellent views!
Casey, Bronco needs to learn from the fans and the media? That is a great way to be “tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine”. He may need to be a little more careful in how he deals with fans and media, but he knows far more about the game of football than 99.9% of the rest of us.
Am I supposed to be impressed with a win over Wyoming? I’m not impressed with that win at all. Wyoming is terrible I knew that we would beat the crap out of them. Thats the problem though, we beat really bad teams but suck at playing the good teams. I want us to win against the good teams, I am not gonna settle for beating crap teams anymore. So stop making that win seem so good. It wasn’t.
If this is true as you say that bronco is the type of person that would love to shove it in everyone’s face after he has won a NC, he doesn’t sound like a very nice person, or the type of coach/representative that BYU would want to have.
I am a little disappointed with our fanbase myself. Bronco has been awesome, and the fact that our biggest complaint is that we haven’t been the cinderalla story in a BCS bowl is a real credit to Coach Medenhall and what is happening with this program. I am believer, but I actually believe that he will meet his goals before the 8 year mark.
There is another reason why Bronco Medenhall would not care about the fanatic criticism. Bronco was hired to replace Gary Crowton. If you still believe Crowton was fired for losing football games, then you really don’t understand BYU’s mission. Crowton was fired becuase of the lack of discipline and control of his athletes which climaxed in a terrible rape case in the courts that drew national media attention to BYU. Of course BYU has zero tolerance for such things, because like it or not, BYU represents our Church. So both Crowton and the AD were let go. When Bronco was hired, I imagine the conversation went something like, “We don’t care what your record is at the end of the day, so long as you have a team that plays honorably and represents our mission.” Bronco has done that.
I am proud to be a True Blue Coug, because even if my football team will not be invited to a BCS bowl without having a perfect season, at least it will not tolerate cheap eye gouging from a hot-headed player. Since Bronco has taken over the reins of the program, there has never been a time that I have felt embarrassed being a fan. That says a lot.
Re: Amused
are we talking about the Wyoming game?
Since you brought it up, Wyoming isn’t that bad. They had Utah and AFA on the ropes. Gave Texas a good fight in the first half. The fact that we had total domination is encouraging, but what else would you expect when a team with superior athletes plays a lesser team. Sorta like when we played TCU. They were a better team – no doubt. We lost. Get over it. It’s not like our coaches and plyers sat around and didn’t prepare. TCU is probably deserving of top 5 status. (FSU is a little tougher to explain)
Brett-
I was comparing Coach M to Coach Whit (as defensive coordinators) and said I never liked the 3-3-5 because it was a gambling defense. I know he has not used that for three years. Also, we, the fans, aren’t the ones talking about National Championships, Coach M has mentioned this at least a couple of times this year, most recently after the loss to TCU. We aren’t the ones who created the slogan, “Quest For Perfection”, which was carried over to this season silently. How could you have any other slogan to top that one? There isn’t anything higher than Perfection. You don’t here Coach Whit making different slogans every year, he just goes out and goes undefeated!
I love Coach M and think he is the best coach for BYU but please don’t throw us under the bus. There have been three straight seasons now of sellouts so we are still there cheering the team on. Yes, we are a little disappointed when we have to sit through embarrassing losses to Florida St. & TCU, we are disappointed when our team did not show up ready to play Arizona last year (the Utes are 4-0 under Coach Whit and they won their bowl games after being stunned by us in 06 & 07) and we will be disappointed if we don’t win the MWC title again. Yes Coach E did not win the WAC every year and its unreasonable to expect that we could. We are no different than the fans of the Patriots, Lakers, Yankees, etc., if we don’t win the title every year; that just comes with the territory. Coach E endured the criticism much better than Coach M especially in the 90’s when we all said his time had passed and almost ushered him out the door. And, finally, Coach M won’t be around nearly as long as Coach E and has said so. Coaching at BYU was Coach E’s life; it isn’t for Coach M and I don’t blame him.
Trey-
I am not so sure that the GA’s don’t care if the team wins or not; it is a missionary tool for the Church so it would not look very good if we had losing seasons every year. We are not the ones who have been mentioning winning a national championship in 8 years or ever again but we do expect to be ranked in the top 25 every year and Coach M is doing that. We expect to beat the Utes every year (Coach E had a losing record against them in the 90’s, at least in his last 6 years) and we expect to finish ahead of the Utes every year, but these last two are becoming a major obstacle. hate them all you want but since Coach Whit took over they have won as many games as Coach M has and have had an undefeated season. I think this good for the state, the MWC and our rivalry.
Trey-
By the way, President Uchtdorf was seen leaving the stadium early in the 4th quarter against TCU; even he could not take it and got out of there early. The GA’s are as competitive as anyone; besides this is the Lord’s Church and he likes to win…just kidding.
Bronco says he doesn’t read Cougarboard.com but he obviously does. That’s where all the haters hang out. Bronco, man up and ignore those basement dwelling boneheads. Also, ignore PK and Hans and all those idiots. They also hang out on cougarboard.com and are negative to increase listeners.
I have really enjoyed this discussion from both sides.
Some responses and highlights I wanted to note:
- I agree that the morality and quality of the team and the program are much better under Bronco than any other coach, which is more important in the long run than any National Championship (and will still win conference championships.)
- Ben, I have talked to a few of the most successful players from Bronco’s era (a few of which now play in the NFL) and not one of them agree with how Bronco is running the program as a head coach. Just this weekend, one of them mentioned what a great defensive coordinator he was, and now he is no longer effective on the field. The comment was, “I respect him like I respect my bishop…but I don’t need a Bishop on the field. I need a coach I can trust.” Pretty harsh, but as I see several players not get the plays they need to move on, I can understand that perspective.
- The fans do matter, and BYU is very lucky to have sellout crowds year after year. I DO agree with the notion that there are many ignorant fans, and the fact that booing is NEVER ok, not against the opposing team, but ESPECIALLY not against your own team. Sure, boo the refs, but other than that, fans should encourage their team, they can disagree, but not discourage.
-Lastly, in reference to the fact that BYU’s greatest quarterbacks never playing big games, let’s be honest, college football today is a completely different beast than back then, not fair to even compare. Many 10-2 teams won’t make it to a decent bowl game. You have to win the big games, and then be consistent with the “easy” games. You can not compare Max Hall to McMahon or Detmer and their stats because they weren’t surrounded with the Bradfords (pre-injury) or last year’s Stafford. Max could get away with a 2:1 TD to Int ratio if he came close to competing in the games like TCU or FSU. But only scoring 7 points when the other team scored 38 is not good enough. And the coach should not allow that to happen, whether or not the fans are ignorant or not
With ALL of that being said, I love BYU and Cougar football. Am I bummed that not only did they lost any shot at a BCS? Sure. I am even mroe disappointed that we probably won’t win another conference championship this year? Of course. But, I support the team regardless, and I wear the Cougar blue proudly. I disagree with Bronco a lot, but I disagree with my husband sometimes too, big whoop. (And sometimes I’m wrong, but I’m right sometimes, too!) Bronco will have to change in order to get different results, not only is that a rule of business, it’s a rule of physics, and in life, in general. We’ve already seen a few changes, which I believe allowed us to win a big game like Oklahoma, but then to lose to FSU and TCU (even worse than before) means we have a few more adjustments to make.
Looking forward to that!
Go Cougars!!
You can compare Hall to McMahon, Detmer, Young, Bosco, etc. – all had bad games and all had losses, but they all found ways to win most of the time. And, Max has had some big wins. Oklahoma was huge. Yes, they’ve struggled since they lost Bradford, but they’ve lost close games and are still a decent team. How about the Utah game in 2007? Arizona the same year. UCLA twice. Some of you have short memories.
And Bronco is a successful coach. You really can’t ask for much more can you? Maybe Kyle has had it a little better, but that does not take away from what Bronco has been able to do. He immediately elevated the team to winning and has had solid seasons every year. We can’t beat UCLA 59-0 every week.
I’m proud of him. Proud of Max Hall, Dennis Pita, etc.
You won’t hear me booing on Saturdays. I’d love to see some of you on the hot seat. My guess is that you would do very poorly. As a football coach (HS), I can’t imagine trying to live up to BYU fan expectations given the resources at hand.
What a bunch of crap.
Quote: “Well I have some news for you people….Bronco could really care less what everyone or anyone thinks about the way he runs his program”
On it’s face, this is completely untrue. HE’S TALKED ABOUT IT IN EVERY INTERVIEW FOR TWO WEEKS.
(On a lighter note Criddle, I loved your touchdown saving tackle against Arizona in 2006)
I’m really tired of the folks that are living in some fantasy world of days gone by. Other than 1984 (very light schedule), we have lost games every year. And for those that claim Max Hall doesn’t play well in the big games compared to previous QBs, let’s compare the losses in big and not so big games
Sheide – 1974 – tied CSU, lost to Hawaii, Utah State, Iowa State, and Oklahoma State in bowl game
Gifford Nielson – 1975-77 – lost to Arizona, Kansas St., Wyoming and S. Mississippi (also Oregon State, but he left game early with career ending injury)
Marc Wilson – 1977-79 – Arizona St. (twice), Utah St., Utah, and bowl games to Indiana U.
Jim McMahon – 1978-81 – Utah St., Utah, New Mexico, UNLV, Wyoming, and Navy (bowl game)
Steve Young – 1980-83 – Baylor, Georgia, Air Force, Utah St., and Ohio St. (bowl)
Robbie Bosco – 1984-85 – UCLA, UTEP, and Ohio St. (bowl)
Ty Detmer – 1988-1991 – SDSU, Utah, Miami, Washington St., Oregon, Hawaii (twice), Florida St., UCLA, Penn St., and a tie to SDSU and a tie with Iowa in a bowl and a loss to Penn St. in a bowl
John Walsh – 1993-94 – UCLA, Notre Dame, Fresno St., Utah St., CSu, Arizona St., and Utah (twice), and Ohio St. (bowl)
Steve Sarkisian – 1995-96 – Air Force, UCLA, Arizona St., Utah, and Washington
John Beck – 2003-2006 Stanford (twice), USC, Boise St., UNLV, New Mexico, Boston College (twice), Arizona, TCU, SDSU, Notre Dame, and Utah (twice) and Cal (bowl)
Max Hall – 2007-2009 – UCLA, Tulsa, TCU (twice), Utah, Arizona, & Florida State
Looks like Max is in good company. (you could do the same for any other QB on any other team)
Max’s QB rating for this season is nearly 170, which is higher than all of these other very fine QBs. His career average will be likely near the top of the list (Ty Detmer is 162.7) In his senior season, Ty was only able to score 7 on Penn St. and 13 on Iowa. Did that mean he wasn’t up for big games. He won some and lost some. So does Max.
I don’t know what some of you are complaining about. All QBs have off games – especially when playing against very tough competition.
One fans prospective.
At the end of last year it seems that Bronco’s frustration with the fans was that “their expectations were too high” I find that interesting because as I entered LES for the first game of the year all I saw was shirts with a quote by Bronco “Quest for Perfection”. This quote has been beat to death so let’s not go down that road. Instead let’s talk about the “team goals”
1. Win every home game. Check
2. Win the MTN West. We took 3rd. Failed
3. Win the state championship. We had our worst beating in years. (Gary Crowton’s teams showed better) FAILED miserably.
4. Win the Bowl Game. Failed
What happened to accountability? He hit 1 out of 4 goals then tried to justify it by saying the team has the best winning record in years. Did he lower his standard?
Let’s look at this year.
1. Win every home game. Two major blowouts. Failed.
2. Win the MTN West. Not likely
3. Win the state championship. TBD (PLEASE WIN THIS GAME I CAN”T GO ANOTHER YEAR WITH A LOSS)
4. Win the bowl game. TBD.
It is very possible that we fall short of all 4 of our goals. Not likely but possible.
As a fan I personally could care less about what Whitt or any other coach in the country is doing. I realize BYU is not like any other place. I also realize that they will not hit their goals every year. But I do think it’s funny that Bronco is constantly talking about accountability. Regardless if he likes the fans or not it just seems to me that he should be more worried about hitting the goals that he and the team have set then worrying about the stupidity of the fans. Last year the team was 1 out of 4 and this year he could be 0 for 4.(please beat Utah)
I am one that has loved what Bronco has done. I was in Dallas for the beating of OK. I was also in LES for the beat down by FSU. I stayed tell the very end and did not boo once. I have been one that has bought into everything Bronco has said so if my expectations are too high then maybe I have misunderstood what Bronco has sold me.
Extremely insightful post Criddle, thanks.
I’d also agree with some of the other posters, that I’d take real exception to Bronco not caring about the fans/what they think. I would support 100% that he should care less about their opinions on play calling/coaching decisions/etc., but as far as in general, he needs those fans to help him be successful in his career. The fans of BYU football are a large part of what makes the program so great.
Anyways, so hopefully that’s not the case. Again, he should care less about the “couch coaches”, but the emotional, vocal fans….those should be the ones he wraps his arms around.
Can’t wait for the UNM game this weekend. Hope we see more just like the Wyoming game.
GO COUGARS!
“And he wants to shove it in all of our faces. One thing you have to understand about Bronco is that he loves when anyone disrespects him because in his mind, he will eventually prove just how much of an imbecile you are for questioning his thought process or how he runs his program.”
Sounds a lot like the Oregon State linebacker Bronco Mendenhall, who went to Oregon State just so he could play BYU and prove himself. Which he did.
My first reaction to Criddle’s article was that Bronco surely isn’t that harsh. Then I remembered his college years and realized that beneath the refined, calm public appearance is an INCREDIBLY COMPETITIVE and DETERMINED man who wants to prove that IT CAN BE DONE.
Yo True Blue, thanks for posting those QB loss details. I’m glad someone finally did. Brett, you had really great QB comments as well.
Even in this discussion where most of us are trying to be positive, there is still some inaccurate criticism.
Suzie, I love most of your comments. But you said, “But only scoring 7 points when the other team scored 38 is not good enough. And the coach should not allow that to happen, whether or not the fans are ignorant or not”
Uh…the coach shouldn’t allow it to happen? Well, what did you want Bronco to do? Run out there on the field and start scoring? Sheesh, every guy on BYU’s offense was working his butt off to score. It just didn’t happen. Does Bronco know that 7 points isn’t enough? I’m pretty sure he does. I don’t think you or I or anyone else on here thought he only planned on scoring 7. Everyone did their best. It just wasn’t in the cards for us that game. Check those loss records for our other amazing quarterbacks. Some of them only scored 7 points too. (Hey True Blue, didn’t Bosco only put up 7 points against Ohio State? Or am I thinking of a different game? Didn’t Detmer also get schooled by Texas A&M as well?) The point is, crappy games happen to everyone. And in response to your comment about what some former Cougar NFL players think, I really don’t value their opinions over what Bronco thinks. I wouldn’t be surprised if they all changed their minds 20 years down the road when they are coaches themselves and realize that they didn’t really know as much as they thought they did.
@ D.T.: You said, “It seems that Utah can win big games. It seems that generally, Oklahoma was an exception, that we struggle in big games.”
I’m not sure I agree. How many big games has Utah had this year? 1. They lost. Since the 2000 season, BYU and Utah have played 9 times, and Utah has won 5 of those. If BYU wins this year, it will be an even 5 games a piece. Each time BYU and Utah play, it is a big game, is it not? When was the last time BYU was favored to win a big game against Utah and then lost?
It’s true Utah has been great in some big games. There probably isn’t a team in the nation with a better bowl record than Utah spanning the last 10 or so years. So what? They’ve been an anomaly. They’ve been unusually good. Things will average out for them and they’ll lose their share of big games. It’s true that BYU has lost some big games the last few years. We’ll win some of them though. It’s a sport. You win some, you lose some. It will be a lot of fun when we get an undefeated year. But in the meantime, it’s already tons of fun right now.
Thanks for all the cool comments from everybody. If you were offended by Criddle’s post, you suck. And no, I don’t care about PR at all
Dracos
after all that negative banter and
not even one “get that crap out of here” ?
Mmmmm…. U must be off your game.
Great insight from everyone! I’ve enjoyed going through all the comments thoroughly.
Criddle
True Blue-
The only fair way to evaluate all these QB’s is to compare them in their senior years and even then during the last half of the season. I am not going to list their wins & losses during that period but Young & Beck were at their best & did not lose and Young could beat you with his legs and his arm and yet he really did not become a proficient QB until he Bill Walsh traded for him.
Hey, we think we have it bad, imagine how USC fans feel about their coach, Pete Carroll, and mighty Trojans who have lost two games this year and have lost at least one game in the following previous years, all preventing them from winning a national championship and they as have good or better players as a team in college football, including the Florida Gators who clearly been the top team since Meyer arrived:
2008: Lost 27-21 to Oregon State in week 3
2007: Lost to Stanford 24-23 in week 5 & Oregon 24-17 in week 8
2006: Lost to Oregon St. 33-31 in week 7 UCLA 13-9 in week 12
2005: Lost to Texas (Vince Young) 41-38 at the Rose Bowl in the BCS National Championship game
2004: went undefeated & beat Oklahoma in the Fed Ex Orange Bowl
I don’t normally comment on this stuff, but this subject really got under my skin. It’s been fun though.
To Vase, yes, Detmer only put up 14 against Texas A&M as they put up 65. He also only put up 7 against Penn St. and 13 against Iowa(in his last game as a senior). And yes, Bosco only put up 7 against Ohio St. in his last bowl game.
To Walk, I don’t agree with “the only fair way to evaluate all these QB’s is to compare them in their senior years . . .”. Bosco won NC as a junior and had 3 losses as a senior (2 of them in last half of season). Detmer won Heisman as junior and then had 3 losses and 2 ties as a senior. Does this make those men subpar QBs? I think not. you have to look at their entire body of work. Young (my favorite all time QB) had an awesome senior season, but even he struggled against a poor Missouri defense in his final game as a Cougar.
Fans need to understand that a QB can have up and down games. Sometimes the reasons are partially related to the player, but other times not (receivers tipping balls, bad calls by refs, weather, illness/injury, play calling by coaches, THE OTHER TEAM).
The same is true for the coach.
After the cougs beat UCLA 59-0 last year, nothing else was good enough. Fan comments after the next game were ridiculous, even though it was a win.
I’m afraid that we might be in for the same this Saturday. UNM will show up with their best game in a home stadium. They are hungry for a win and this is their version of bowl game this year. Even though we should win, I doubt it will be another “perfect game” like we saw last week and fans will be all over Hall and Mendenhall for their substandard performance.
Come on guys and gals, get behind the team. Allow Bronco his quirks. He didn’t mean to offend and he does understand fans. He just dislikes disloyalty by those that are so quick to jump ship.
one more thing, congrats to Max for:
“BYU’s Max Hall and Cincinnati’s Zach Collaros have been named the College Performance Awards National Performers of the Week.”
Congrats to Bronco for coaching him to it.
2 Things.
1) Max Hall is a very good QB. I would not but him in the same catagory with some of BYU’s past elite QBs but that doesn’t change the fact that he is in the top 5 in the country in nearly all of the QB stats recorded by the NCAA
2) Never Boo.
How many of you out their have more refereeing experience than the refs on the field? How many of you have a better view of the game then the refs? How many know more about NCAA college football rules than the refs?
Don’t boo the refs. It is bad sportmanship and makes you look stupid to anyone who actually understands the game.
How many of you have careers as NCAA div 1 football coaches? Of those who who answered yes to the first, how many of you have coached your teams to 4 seasons in which you were ranked in the top 25 just a year after inheriting a team that suffered 3 strait losing seasons?
If you can and have done that then booing coaches is is just rude and bad sportsmanship. Otherwise it is stupid.
As for booing the players, that is just stupid all around. Can you do what they do? Are you committed to the game as much as they are? No. If you were you would be on the field or at least the side lines.
In closing, Booing in a football game is not only rude and demonstrates bad sportmanship, it also shows a lack of understanding and/or intelegnece. I have been around the Game for most of my life either as a player, a fan, a coach, or a ref, and One thing that remains constant is that those who jeer and boo typically know very little about the game. The louder and more frequent the boos and criticisms, the more ignorant and/or stupid the person is.
It is my sincere hope that those who boo at games take offence to this post because you offend me and all intellegent fans who actually understand what goes on in the game called football.
True Blue-
You never responded to my comments about USC? They have the best talent of anybody in the country with the exception of maybe Florida and yet they have fallen short of their goals every year since 04. Maybe you don’t care but the analogy is correct…their fans are disappointed (as I am sure their entire coaching staff is also) because they expect to win the championship every year or at least be in that game, and guess what, that is a reasonable goal for them and this is the 5th year in a row that they have fallen short. Yet they still support them in attendance and financially.
Bottom line, all is good in Cougar Nation…its just a game, Coach M, his staff & players are doing the best they can and we all have much more important things of which to worry.
GO COUGS!
Ben-
Congratulations, you really stirred up the beehive (Cougar Nation)which was your intent and the mark of a great writer.
Dear Pizza,
Get that crap out of here.
Sincerely,
Drakos
No seriously, I’ve been really busy and haven’t had a chance to read all of the authors’ posts this week, let alone the comments. From what I have seen there looks like there has been some good insights. For the record, I am not against ANY negativity. There was just something about your posts in that little time period that just rubbed me the wrong way. But I think we made amends and I’m certainly over it.
I’m sorry, but to put Max in the same category as
Young, Bosco, or any of the great ones doesent make it for me. Max can generate great stats against Wyo. But I haven’t scene the on field leadership to get it done.
I even predict another melt down against Utah.
I don’t want it to happen, but it seems when ther pressure is on, max is not.
Pizzaman et al-
Max does not play defense and in the case of Florida St & TCU, they got the ball & marched right down the field again and again and scored on us and we got in a hole quickly. From that point I’m not sure we could have pulled it out had Payton Manning been playing. Having said that, I do not think that Max is as good as John Beck was at this point in his senior year, and he certainly won’t go in the 2nd round mainly because he does not have the arm strength that John had (Steve Young didn’t either but he had everything else).
Dracos,
it’s no problem,
just don’t let anyone know where your goat is tied up.
I do love the sports banter and I see things alot differently than the “local” BYU fan. I actually try to be objective.
I’m not BYU blind. I’ve been watching BYU football for 40 + years.
I can’t handle excuses coaches and players make.
I do blame a lot of BYU’ s failures on poor recruiting and stuborness. In this years case we don’t have the atheletes to compete with the big boys.
” if you can’t run with the big dogs get off the porch” in other words don’t play the big teams or have aspirations to play on the national stage don’t schedule the games.
Just my pennies
Walt en all
Football 101
A good offence puts points on the board, this will give the defence a chance to rest. It also puts pressure on the opposition to take more chances offensively, thus giving our defence the advantage.
A good Offence passes and does not throw pics. And runs at the right down and distance.
A good offence does not fumble.
A good offence punts to change field position. Then the D has at least a chance at a stop.
A great QB will inspire his O line and RB’s to keep the bad guys off so he can make better passes and throw less under pressure, thus less picks.
If we properly manage the ball we win. It keep the ball out of the other teams hands. If done right a lesser Atheletic team can easily defeat superior atheletes.
Very simple ….. Do you need football 102.
Quit making excuses for Max… He ain’t got it.
Yes he has a accurate arm. But, he can’t handle the pressure.
to: walt
sorry, didn’t realize you wanted a response. You said it well enough. USC is a fine program, and your point that it doesn’t have perfection every year is a very good one. I”m sure their fans are disappointed, but hopefully not ready to throw Pete out due to some bumps in the road. There is generally 1 or 2 teams that have that “perfect” year. And no team stays on top every year. And that is USC, which nobody can argue has a much better chance of recruiting the nations top athletes than we do.
to: totalfear
what accountability do you want for Bronco? Throw him out because he didn’t meet all of the goals? Do you meet all of your goals? As a HS coach myself, I have a winning record. This year was bad (until playoffs), largely due ridiculous number of starters out with swine flu and injuries. Ya, I screwed up some too. Thankfully my fan base is mostly supportive and sees the big picture.
Coaches feel accountability painfully well when we lose. We don’t need fans booing us or rubbing it in our face. If I lose more than I win, don’t meet most of my goals in most years, etc. – then I should be fired. Ditto for Bronco. You are taking too narrow of slice to evaluate him. Overall, he has met most of his goals since he has been at BYU. Impressive if you ask me.
But some will never be happy unless the men in blue are undefeated with totally lopsided scores every game and a NC to boot. Then, of course, you will be ready to throw him out the next year when the results aren’t the same. Get a reality check.
to: pizzaman
check your facts . . . max has had some big wins, especially in 2007. And, I’m not sure it is wise to lay the losses completely at the feet of the QB. He had a panicked meltdown in the last half of UT game last year, but he didn’t play too bad in other big games. I think that there were other contributing factors to those losses (let’s talk about defense).
Let’s wait and see how the end of this year turns out before we throw his career in the poor category.
True blue
I will agree to that…. No more negative on Max. But if he melts down again on any of the next games including bowl game. You must admit it on this blog.
If he plays great I do the same.
Deal ?
sorry Pizza man – no deal
I don’t have any insight on how well he may or may not play. For all I know, he will completely fall apart and lose the next 4 games.
I’m just saying that, as you spelled out so well, that play calling, fumbles, interceptions, etc. also contribute to the losses. Max doesn’t have total control of those things.
For example, in the FSU game. The RB fumble as we were near the goal line was a real momentum changer. Not Max’s fault. The pick 6 in that game was an atrocious PI no-call put the nail in the coffin, but the pass was a good one. From then on, the team was in catch up mode and FSU was extremely confident. I would have loved to see a “miracle bowl” style comeback and you could argue that we don’t have that fire in the current team.
My point is that Max is a good QB and I certainly wouldn’t bench him. He has done remarkably well. Other than the picks against FSU (and only one of those was a bad pass), his numbers were good.
Is he going to go down in history as one of the BYU greats? I don’t think we know yet, but my final point is that even those greats had off games and they wouldn’t be standing up to the current level of criticism either. apparently the standard has changed. You have already made your decision, but what is your argument. I laid out some facts. what are the facts behind your reasoning. And, be sure to give me fair comparisons with the other greats. Again, they lost big games. They threw interceptions. They failed to inspire the offense. what is the difference? be specific and be fair.
GO COUGS! AND GO TCU THIS SATURDAY!
Dear True Blue
YOUR …. “No Deal” says it all to me.
Respectfully Pizzaman….
I think we have all (especially me) gone over the top here or beyond the mark of the purpose of this site. As it is stated in “About This Site”, it is for “True Blue Fans” which is not defined but I assume it means the most passionate & loyal. Because it is a blog, however, anyone (football educated or not educated; football experience at any level or not; anyone from True Blue to the deepest shade of red – as the type up north) can give their opinions. In the spirit of being true fans, however, I do not think that it should be place where participants take potshots at each other or question each other’s knowledge or lack thereof. It is after all, dedicated to a game and as Coach M has pointed out many times, is just a vehicle (a very expensive one) to get to us to the really more important things in life. We are fortunate to have three authors who not only have D-1 experience as starters but also who played for BYU under Coach M & his staff. So maybe we should do a gut check and just be thankful for this sight, experience and freedom of expression. Thanks staff and each & every participant.
Walt,
Amen.
I stopped reading most other fan boards because posters started taking personal potshots at each other. I would hate to have that happen here.
Great insight on Bronco. I believe that Bronco wants to win for: 1) The Players, 2) The Coaches, 3) The Institution. Maybe not in that order. The fans don’t make the list, and I’m glad we don’t. And, honestly, I don’t think he or his family make the list.
Wow, what a response!!!
Agree with (almost) never boo. The last post concentrated on the team becoming elite. For the fan base to become elite we must (among other things) learn to never boo. For each of the three situations described, an elite fan base would have a different response than booing. I think that the only time fans should boo is when it is jest or humorous. An example would be the other team’s mascot taking down Cosmo in a staged fight.
Interesting take that one of Bronco’s ideals is to have the program “run itself” with the players taking on most of the responsibility – something we’ve all heard before. Is this following most professional teams, other successful college programs, or where did he get this idea? Following AC into his Colts’ career, I get the feeling that Peyton Manning basically runs the offense, so maybe other pro teams follow this model.
boo
Pronunciation. “bu”
Noun.1. hoot, Bronx cheer, hiss, raspberry, razzing, razz, snort, bird — a cry or noise made to express displeasure or contempt
Verb. 1. hiss — show displeasure, as after a performance or speech
I don’t spend a lot of time in the Boo’ing
of coaches or players or even refs.
If it’s ok to applaud or cheer, it’s ok to Boo. ( there needs be opposition in ALL things)
Atheletes who recieve compensation (yes, a 4 year education, housing, meals is compensation) for thier efforts are subject to the occasional Boo. It actually can help an athelete improve his or her preformance. (tighten your shot group soldier)
It can let a player know the poor effort that they may be displaying. I have never seen an athelete, coach or official get booed for exceptional effort. It’s usually poor judgement that gets Boo’ed.
I don’t have any opposition to Bronco Plan, 8 years is a long time though.
Just don’t boo the Bishop or Stake Pres…..Now that’s bad form. LOL
To True Blue.
First off, Bronco is the one that is always talking about accountability. The point that I was trying to make is that since the end of last year, any chance Bronco has to take a jab at the fans he would. It really hasn’t bothered me that much until Saturday when I came home from a campout all fired up to watch my Cougars play. I go to grab the paper to read about my Cougs. On the FRONT PAGE of the paper is an article of how crappy BYU fans are. The part that got to me the most was Coach Hill saying that the players don’t even want to play at home anymore. I’ll be honest – that hurt. I have gone to almost every home game since 2002. I wear blue to the games and anyone that goes with me, I make sure they wear blue to the game. At the FSU game I stayed to the end and never booed. My point isn’t to say that there aren’t crappy fans out there but I guess I’m tired of the coaches just focusing on the negative behavior of a handful of fans. I feel it started with Bronco, now Coach Hill, and now it’s rubbing off on the players. You talk about how supportive your fans are – when was the last time you took a jab at YOUR fans? I’m sure there is a small minority of your fans that are frustrated with some of the things you do. The one thing I have learned is you can’t please everyone. I can’t remember the last time Bronco came out and gave the fans props for their support. Can you? So to answer your question, NO I do not want Bronco to be fired. But I would like to pick up the sports page and read an article about the football team, rather than read about how poor the fans are behaving. From my perspective, too much focus is on the fans, rather than going out, playing hard and what they’re going to do to improve.
seriously about the “boos”
do you think those coaches that are screaming, yelling, throwing there hats on the ground, and even throwing there red flags out on the field are not “booing”
I mean come on, they disagree with the call, just because the coaches are not using the word “booo” doesn’t mean that they are not “booing”
you would almost think boo was the “f word” of sports.
Well I think we are putting too much conjecture into this about what Coach M thinks about us; I thought he was mad because some fans threw eggs at Coach Hill’s car at his home. That would make me mad also…the head coach has to protect his staff.
One thing I have noticed is that Coach has been asking us to wear Blue for three years now and we’re sill not even close to 75% yet and the biggest offenders are the fans in the west side Legends seating. When Utah asks everybody to show up in black, it’s a total blackout. I saw a picture of Penn State’s stadium last year and it was 100% white. So how to we gauge ourselves as fans compared to other teams’ fans? Another thing I don’t like is that at the start of the game our stadium is only 75% filled. Jan did not say he did not like playing at home, he just said it’s easier to concentrate on the road. I don’t think that is a jab at us.
Anyway, maybe there is someone out there is Cougarland who has been to other stadiums and around other fans who can give us a better viewpoint on how we rate. We certainly can’t rate ourselves and be objective about it. Someone said we just need to relax, and just let the players take care of what they do on the field. The worst thing that can happen is for our team to get invited back to Las Vegas again and neither the team nor us to be very excited about it. Maybe we are spoiled; anybody remember what it was like going to the Holiday Bowl every year?
Staff, you’re in a better position to judge us as fans; where do we rank and do you think there really beginning to be a gulf between us and the team? Tell us like it is; if we need to change and get better then that’s what we need to do.
Well I think we are putting too much conjecture into this about what Coach M thinks about us; I thought he was mad because some fans threw eggs at Coach Hill’s car at his home. That would make me mad also…the head coach has to protect his staff.
One thing I have noticed is that Coach has been asking us to wear Blue for three years now and we’re sill not even close to 75% yet and the biggest offenders are the fans in the west side Legends seating. When Utah asks everybody to show up in black, it’s a total blackout. I saw a picture of Penn State’s stadium last year and it was 100% white. So how to we gauge ourselves as fans compared to other teams’ fans? Another thing I don’t like is that at the start of the game our stadium is only 75% filled. Jan did not say he did not like playing at home, he just said it’s easier to concentrate on the road. I don’t think that is a jab at us.
Anyway, maybe there is someone out there is Cougarland who has been to other stadiums and around other fans who can give us a better viewpoint on how we rate. We certainly can’t rate ourselves and be objective about it. Someone said we just need to relax, and just let the players take care of what they do on the field. The worst thing that can happen is for our team to get invited back to Las Vegas again and neither the team nor us to be very excited about it. Maybe we are spoiled; anybody remember what it was like going to the Holiday Bowl every year?
Come on guys! Just 4 more posts and we’ll make it to 100.
I keep telling myself that I have spent too much time on this and that I am done commenting, but, alas, I can’t help myself. This has been very interesting.
To: totalfear – good comments – I agree with most of what you say. I do wish Bronco would realize that most fans aren’t jerks.
I was disgusted at the last game by several fans around me that were so quick to jump ship. Jeering Max Hall in particular. Yelling “I hate Max Hall” is uncalled for when he was giving it his best.
BTW – Booing is ok in my book when refs need to know when they made a bad call. Also ok when players & coaches are being unethical. But, I don’t like it when fans boo the game itself. Also, need to treat opposing team with respect. I read on FSU fan blog that we treated their fans great. Heard the same thing from a few TCU fans. That is good PR, which is part of the goal in my mind.
Good discussion folks. I enjoyed it. Hope I didn’t offend anyone in my zeal.
Robb Cundick, thanks for your post you totally nailed it!! Now can we all please shut up about this. It’s time for us all to build a bridge and get OVER IT. Please don’t turn this blog into cougarboard.
Without fans there wouldn’t be athletics played like it is today. It would be like what BYU Idaho has, an intramural program and the coaches would just be PE teachers.
MarkA-
True but this is a business; a big, big business and if we don’t act appropriately & support the team enthusiastically and financially, the head coach is not happy and leaves, no potentially good coach wants to replace him, the players don’t want to come here, the athletic department & the other sports start to suffer, the AD leaves and pretty soon you have lost the entire program. No I think we better wise up, be grateful (& express it vocally and in written form to the coaches and players), be happy, be supportive, be enthusiastic, and just generally have a good attitude. Maybe we ought to look “The Man (& Woman) in The Glass” and do an attitude check. Yes we have lost two games but I am quite sure that the players and coaches and trying a lot harder to do their best than we are as fans trying to do our best. I believe that true, loyal fans of any team may get temporarily disappointed but they always support their team through thick & thin.
Ben-
Can you believe this? 100 (I mean 101) comments to your post! I have rarely if ever seen this many comments on any sports writers blogs. Congratulations to you, Markell & Quinn
When Norm Chow left the program, I could only hear Janet Jackson in the background, “On and on, and on and on… You don’t know what you’ve got ’till it’s gone.” Ask New Mexico if they miss Rocky Long. Shoot, ask them if they miss Bronco (their newspaper article introduced Bronco as “former New Mexico assistant”.
We only have this coaching staff and these players for but a moment and I’m going to enjoy watching them while I can. Maybe I’ll even learn something about life and become a better husband/father/person along the way.
I’ll never forget the reverence that overtook Dallas Cowboys Stadium when they played Bronco’s “Today” commercial on the MegaTron. I don’t think even Lavell himself could pull that one off. Hey, no one’s perfect, the guy doesn’t walk on water and he has made serious coaching errors that have cost us wins. But, really? Criticism from the casual or even experienced FAN? Save the criticism for something that you actually have expertise in.
I don’t miss Chow. I liked him when he was with BYU but he saw the writing on the wall and left. Norm went on to bigger things and BYU has remained a respected program known for its productive offense.
Seasider-
I agree with what kiyoshige said about enjoying this coaching staff but don’t talk down Coach Chow; is we had the opportunity, and we don’t, we would take him over Coach Anae any day of the year; he is a genius (as they used to call Bill Walsh) compared to Coach Anae…just ask Steve Sarkisian.
OK, I watched TCU today beat Utah 55-28 at home; they beat us 38-7 here and after taking in the whole game I am really worried about stopping Utah’s passing game; I can’t see how we beat the Utes in our last game…as a matter of fact, I’m worried about playing Air Force. they played TCU closer than any other team this year and they really steamrolled over UNLV today.
Am I way off course with these premonitions?
I agree Woody. Depends on which team shows up. Although I have to say that I saw the UNM train coming. They had much to play for and are not nearly as bad as their W-L record indicates. Good athletes, but inexperienced in a new system. Their QB was throwing very well.
I do not take anything away from our victory yesterday and I am not concerned about the score. But after watching Utah put up 28 points against TCU (the most by anyone this year) because their freshman QB is really good and according to COach WHit has the same presence as Alex Smith when he was a freshman.
Would anyone like to be a mighty Trojan right now? They have three loses and Stanford puts up 55 points on them, and Coach Carroll (SP?) is a defensive coach. Ouch! Maybe we play them in the L.V. Bowl? Now that I would walk to L.V. to see!
I totally agree with the fact that Mendenhall does not respect and appreciate his fans, and I think it is awful. This season he has made multiple comments regarding the ignorance of the fans, saying that unless you are in that position on the field, you have no room to talk. Really? How many fans will ever get the chance to play on a college football team. I think this is awful of Mendenhall and he needs to realize how important fans are to his team, even through the criticism, and appreciate them more.
fans generally are ignorant though – that doesn’t mean he doesn’t appreciate most of them
Cortney,
I don’t think Mendenhall doesn’t appreciate us for what we do and how we support our team. But, is it really in a fan’s “realm of responsibility” to criticize or instruct Bronco on how to run the football team (what players to play, what play calls to make, how to manage the clock at the end of the game, who to recruit, etc.) Now, I’m not saying that BYU fans can’t sometimes find a nice recruit or have good ideas on these topics, but it’s got to be difficult to sift through the piles of criticism to find something constructive that will actually HELP THE TEAM.
Bronco realizes that he takes his direction from the University. He has related the story of his interview from the church leadership several times. He realizes that the institution is worried more about the school representing the university than football success per se. Of course, BYU benefits from the success of the program more than its failure. At the same time, if we are successful but sacrifice the values of the university that’s not going to work. Fans are not in his “chain of command” and so, with all that he has to worry about with running a football program, I’m glad that he “ignores” us. Hey, I sent an email of support to him and I hope he ignored that. He has too much with running the program and recruiting to read fan emails.
It is an outstanding accomplishment when you look where the program was 6 years ago that this year the biggest “scandals” are Teo exiting the team and Max biting off of Alex Smith and saying that he hates the Utes.
People, the saying is “…couldn’t care less”. If you say you COULD care less, that means that you care more than if you didn’t care at all.
If you say you “couldn’t care care less”, that means you care as little about “it” as is possible for you to care about it.
So, what is it? Do you care about it or not?
For a fun read on the “Could care” vs “Couldn’t care” check this out:
http://incompetech.com/gallimaufry/care_less.html
Thanks for this great insight; reading this made me very, very happy!!!
follow up on all the talk about Max Hall . . . strong finish for his career. Utah game was a little ugly, but he had enough to pull it off in the end. Last night was a great game. I enjoyed it from the 50 yard line about 12 rows behind the team. Fun to watch Max and company pull off a win in a big game (another one).
I again say check your facts if you think Max Hall, Bronco, and the rest of the mighty Cougs can’t win a big game. Kudos!!!
My only gripe is why the starters didn’t get pulled to let the seniors play late in the 4th quarter. I would have loved to see Gaskins or Nelson or both at QB. Brian K. at RB. etc.
True,
I like to see a few bones thrown the way of the subs as well. But, I think this team really doesn’t worry about playing time that much. It something maybe we as fans don’t really understand, but I think each and every player on the BYU football team left Sam Boyd satisfied as far as their playing time goes.
The reward of “playing in a bowl game” should be earned. I think Gaskins would’ve played if it was a big deal to him, but he’s the kind of guy that I think he feels that he’s been contributing to EVERY game this year by filling his sideline role.
As far as Riley, and the rest of the underclassmen, I’d just as soon have them get a bit hungry on the sideline. They know the work they need to do in the off season. If they put that in that work, they’ll be playing in something much bigger than the Vegas Bowl.
Ki
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