I tip my hat to the Utes…
BJ and company reduced Nick Saban to a babbling dunce in the post game interviews. I’m sorry…sniffle sniffle…you just have to understand that we lost two of our starting lineman…sniffle sniffle…I should of kept my mouth shut. If your team and program are so powerful put in a back-up -who was probably all world coming out of High School- and they should have been able to hold their own. Don’t give excuses because your star lineman would rather roll in a Benz then play for your team. The Sabanator is no more, he will be known as Little Nicky until he bucks up and says he got beat by a better team.
The Utes did a phenomenal job of spreading the field, pushing the tempo, and stopping the run. Alabama had no answer for the Utah rush, with the Tide standing wide eyed and dumbfounded on the sidelines the Utes pounced creating a point margin that couldn’t be closed. I will admit it, it was fun to watch. Some of the best TV shots of the night where of Little Nicky pacing the sideline wondering where Utah is located on a map.
With the Utes winning there will be a huge discussion about where they should end up in the final rankings. I think that they’ll end up around number 4 -with the winner and loser of the NC game #1 and #2 and the winner of tonight’s Fiesta bowl #3. It will be hard for Utah to demand a #1 ranking with the current system -hopefully the Coaches will vote their consciences and put the Utes in the top slot. Next year could be their year -if they can put together an identical season. I think a non-BCS school will get their shot for a NC is they have two consecutive undefeated seasons and a BCS bowl win already on their resume -excluding Boise St. they’ll need to get out of the WAC. When those requirements have been obtained, then and only then can they be thought of as a possible National Champion hopeful.
Or am I off base?
Recruiting…BYU just lost a lot of ground on Utah. If you were a impressionable 18 year old would you want to play for a team that has been to two different BCS games -winning both- or a team that should soon have the Las Vegas Bowl renamed in their honor -it hurt to say, but I have to be honest. Bronco has a tough sell.
Yes, he does have some very promising things to present kids coming out of high school; yet top recruits, from good high school programs want to win on the biggest stage possible. Being a religious institution is one thing, but I wouldn’t bank on LDS kids coming to BYU simply because of there religious preferences. There are a couple things BYU has that no other school can offer and those “competitive advantages” need to be paramount when recruiting quality players and personalities.
BYU has won the in-state recruiting war for the past couple of years, but this year could be different. Bronco has strung together some good classes in the past three years -who should be coming home from missions- and will be ready to contribute in 09′ and 10′. That’s one of the tricky things with BYU. The Y has to plan for a mission which can open up recruiting needs or present challenges when guys are returning home after two years. It is an extremely difficult balancing act the coaching staff walks as they plan to win games next year and in the future.
I don’t envy how difficult recruiting is at BYU.
I am curious as to your thoughts about the mission comes in to play for Utah. Though not on the same level as BYU, The U has to deal with missionaries as well. It is not exvlusive to BYU.
That was a fun game to watch even though I do not find myself pulling for the guys in red very often. I enjoyed the announcers making every excuse possible for Alabama after in the pregame show talking about how there was no way that Alabama was not coming into this game prepared to play. Oops.
Together with the TCU win over Boise State, I think that this year has done more to put the MWC on the map than the last 5 years combined. If the conference can keep this up things will continue to get better (not for everyone, but at least for our conference).
Gooch,
While I agree with your assessment of of Utah’s win over Alabama (the taking heads on TV couldn’t wait to begin making excuses for the Tide’s pitiful showing), I’m a bit more optimistic about BYU’s future.
As you know better than most, BYU has always been a tough sell for top notch athletes. That will never change. Still, as I compared this year’s Utah team to the Cougars this is what I saw.
When Max Hall had his head in the game our offense was as good as theirs. Our O-line, receivers and running backs were all comparable to the Utes. One major key for next year will be Max’s ability to stay within himself and lead by example rather than by emotion. If, and I know it’s a big IF, Max can do that we should be okay, even with replacing four starters on the O-line. In fact, with a smaller and quicker O-line we may, dare I say it, be better up front in ‘09. Time will tell.
Next, I think the athletes are “in the barn” for us to be better on defense next year. While we won’t be as good as this year’s Utah defense, we should be much improved. I can’t help but think that Bronco and his staff will spend a great deal of time in the off season tinkering with defensive formations and personnel groupings in an effort to improve what was a dismal showing this year on “D.”
Finally, while we may lose some players to Utah or to other schools, I still think Bronco has a great story to tell; and that story will attract the kind of kids to BYU that Bronco and his staff have identified as the type of kids they want. Even after the Crowton years and Bronco’s 6-7 first season as head coach, BYU still was able to recruit some quality athletes. As you say, it takes time for most of those athletes to see the field. Still, their time is coming. Also, I think you can tell a program is on its way up when its coaches, players and fans all consider a 10-3 season to be an underachievement.
Am I looking at things through blue tinted glasses? Perhaps. Still, I can’t help but believe Austin Collie: “When you do what’s right, magic happens.”
As far as getting a team into the National Title game, if Boise State can’t do it because they come from the WAC, then what you’re really saying is that the only conference who really has a chance, as a non-BCS conference, to play there is the MWC. Because I can’t think of any other conference that wouldn’t be a similar liability to its best team. I could see if Boise had two phenomenal years, and some awesome non-conference wins that they could probably get there. But the most likely way for any team to get there is to have their conference become an automatic qualifier, and I’m thinking the Mountain West has a really good chance to do that in three years.
Utah does have to deal with RM’s but not on the scale that BYU does. Also after speaking with Steve Tate this summer he mentioned that this years team didn’t have as many RM’s as in past years. I guess Witt and his staff have been recruiting heavier in other states, while Bronco has inverted his efforts in hopes of winning the in-state recruits.
February should be interesting.
Darin, when RM’s make up roughly 85% of BYU’s team, that’s a much bigger issue for the Y than for Utah. Plus many LDS players don’t like the overbearing environment at BYU where you get an HC violation for having facial hair………or even long hair. The HC needs to be adjusted to reflect the LDS culture. If it’s good enough to be active in the church, the same standards should be good enough to get into and stay at BYU. Now I think I’ll go have a caffeinated Dr. Pepper.
Anybody have any information on the recruiting front? Specifically:
Manti Teo, Punahou
Xavier Su’a Filo, Timpview
As well as any other comments regarding BYU’s verbal commitments for ‘09?
Regarding the Sugar Bowl – That was a statement game by the MWC. I wish TCU was the team to do it instead of those cursed Utes, but I’ll certainly give credit to Utah for a good gameplan and excellent execution. Brian Johnson’s last two games of his college career were nearly perfect.
Here on the East Coast, the media’s really been poo-pooing the game. Having lost the chance at the title game, Alabama had nothing to play for, they were missing key players, they were obviously overrated, in reality this was supposed to be a rebuilding year for the Crimson Tide, etc. Utah gets zero credit for decisivly beating a # 4 SEC team led by the Coach of the Year in its own backyard. It’s infuriating to hear the list of excuses. I’m sure that Alabama wasn’t totally fired up because they blew a shot at playing in the championship, but if you can’t get motivated to play a BCS game in a stadium dominated by your fans, maybe you shouldn’t bother getting on the field.
Bottom line is that non-BCS schools will never earn respect from the media or fans who clearly don’t follow football outside of their favorite conference or bigtime schools. To get respect either BCS needs to be overthrown (ain’t gonna happen soon), or the MWC needs to join the system as the 7th BCS league.
Regarding recruiting – The Sugar Bowl will hurt. As will BYU’s own lousy bowl performance. We lost DT recruit Heimuli to Utah already and I’m sure Utah now has a leg up on o-lineman Filo. If I were Manti T’eo, I’d look at the Rose Bowl and salivate over the chance to play for Pete Carroll’s defense.
But in the long haul, I believe in the program BYU offers, even if we can’t land all of the LDS recruits we’d like. The media always hypes the RM issue and whether it gives BYU a physical advantage. But the incredibly overlooked side of missions is the success that BYU has had while trying to deal with the logistical planning of recruiting players who won’t show up on the field for several years. Between missions, being a school owned by a comparatively small religion, and the limitations imposed by the Honor Code, I think BYU has greater recruiting challenges than any school outside of the service academies. It’s an incredible testament to the ability of the coaching staffs and the players that the team has done so much over the past 30 years in the face of these issues.
NUMBER 1 REASON WHY UTAH IS NOT IN THE TITLE GAME AND WE NEED TO CAN THE MTN:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-utah010509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
EVERYONE IN UTAH GET READY TO HATE ME:
RECRUITING: I agree with Quinn that a big difference is that K Whitt is going outside UT and Coach Mendenhall wants to win the in-state recruiting battle. Well if I am K Whitt, I am going to say, go ahead and have all the UT kids. I would rather go to CA, TX, FL, WA, etc in ADDITION to UT than just get UT kids. Big guys are big guys no matter where you go, which is why I love the Timpview OL/DL we get, but UT football is just not the same caliber as outside UT, so why build a team with all UT players?
Look at our team from last couple years
Offense:
Collie – CA (Jacobsen – TX)
Pitta – CA George – CO (Harline – UT)
Reed – TX (Allen – AZ)
Unga – UT (Brown – CA)
Tonga – CA
Hall – AZ (Beck – AZ)
OL: UT/CA
Defense:
Jorgensen – UT
Manumalauna – AK (Tialavea – CA)
Dulan – HI (Paonga – HI)
Kehl – UT
Poppinga – WY (Jensen – UT)
Staffieri – CA
Nixon – TX
Buchanan – CA
Criddle – AZ
Gooch – AZ (Fowler – UT)
Tafuna – AZ (Gabriel – TX)
I just would hate to see the day where all we get is UT players. To corner the LDS market you need to get out of Happy Valley and into the real talent.
PS I think 100% of those guys listed above are LDS too.
PPS – Not Reed, and about 85% of them are RMs
Props to the Utes. They effectively shut up old Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson. What a couple of SEC “good ol’ boys”. In my opinion, although they are the hated rival up north, the Utah win brings nationally attention and credibilty not only to the Mountain West but also to Utah as a state. Of course, the other main team in the state is the Cougars and hopefully, quality recruits knowing of the rivalry will be attracted by the Utah win and want to include BYU in their list of prospective schools. BYU is a great school. It takes people awhile, in many cases, to adjust to its uniqueness, but once they do, they can really value the differences that make it unique. I’m excited for Cougar football going forward. I think we can knock off the Utes as well as several other high caliber teams next year. We may lose 1 or 2 again, but who knows, maybe we catch some of the bounces Utah did this year.
I’d rank Utah #3 after USC.
Loser of the BCS Championship would have TWO losses.
1. Winner of BCS
2. USC – Yes, they lost to OSU (on the road)
3. Utah – I could put TX here too.
4. Texas – if winner of Fiesta
I predict Utah gets 4.
I hate giving these guys props, but after watching all the top teams play all year I really think that Utah could play with all of them but USC. TCU gave up 5 TDs of 50+ yds to Oklahoma because they had mental errors. Utah doesn’t make those mistakes, so I think they beat OK. If they play like they did against AL I think they beat FL too. There is no way they beat USC though. That defense is devastating. You can say that OSU beat USC and UT beat OSU, but that was early and right now USC is unstoppable.
The Plus 1 should be USC and UT and the winner is…
My rankings would be
1. USC
2. Utah
3. Florida
4. Oklahoma
5. Texas
Yeah, I hear you.
I was basing my rankings somewhat off of the “system”, though USC seems most dominant to me as well.
Bama was probably the best matchup for Utah. I’m not sure they play TX/USC or even Florida as well. I could be wrong.
Utah was also fortunate to squeak by OSU & TCU. There’s a lot of coulda, woulda, should in College football, and the Utes have scoreboard.
I hope we land the recruits, but I’m concerned.
Seems Bronco’s motto of
1. God/Church
2. Family
3. Academics
4. Service
all before football are now ringing true, but I guess that’s ok. I thought it would be that way as Bronco took over but after the early success, I guess I raised my expectations too.
Go Cougars!
That link that Markell left is money. everything about it – MONEY. that nails it. I have said for a while that a playoff isn’t the only thing that college basketball has right. It’s the selection process! That sticks out like a sore thumb when you read the comments of the poll voters. I was probably more qualified than those yahoos to vote, probably saw a wider/broader selection of games.
I gotta still put Utes at #4. Bama’s offensive scheme isn’t designed for the passing game and when forced to play catch up early in the game, John Parker Wilson couldn’t stand the pressure of constantly being mugged by the Ute pass rush. Bama should have stuck with its bread and butter for longer than they did.
I think that the more balanced offense of Florida with Tebow would be more far more comfortable in adapting to Utah’s defense. OU’s content to pass all day long. Utah would do better against them than TCU, who mentally psyched themselves out of the game, but I think the Utes still lose (but I’m open to the suggestion that Bradford hasn’t faced the pressure Utah could bring). USC is just plain scary.
But I’d pay good money to see Utah play any of those teams!
It is funny, for years I have watched BYU recruiting and I always said when Lavell got a bunch of kids from Utah and particularly utah county…. oh man we are going to suck! I feel the same way you do about that Markell. Being outside of Utah I see a lot of good high school football players that are going all over the place… and not one to BYU. I just flat out don’t agree with Mendenhall’s ‘come to summer camp and recruit yourself’ to me should have as much weight as it is rumored to have. I just would like to see a minimum 40/60 balance between Utah and non Utah football players with 10-20% being nonmembers and 33% who don’t think they will take a mission. I personally would like to see 50% not believe they will take a mission, but it probably will not happen and I am probably paving myself the wrong road by saying that.
BYU will get the recruits who want to play for Bronco. I know that sounds a little cliched but that’s what it will come down to when LOI day arrives. For someone like Manti Teo, it all depends on what their goals in college are. If they’re #1 goal is to get on the national scene and make big bucks in the NFL then he might as well book his ticket to L.A already and give the ok to Pete Carroll. But if his goals are to not only become a good player but a good person and have his testimony strengthened then BYU is the place for him. Those NFL scouts will find him if he plays well enough even if his games are on the Mtn.
Don’t get me wrong I think Bronco has done a great job with recruiting, I just feel like we lost ground with the outside the state recruits. BYU can’t rely on kids recruiting themselves to the LDS program, and BYU needs to find themselves a dual threat quarterback, quick. Max will have another good year, but after that we have no one to take the reins.
I do agree with the out of state comment. BYU needs to hit California and Texas hard. There are so many players in those states that are quality guys and players. Bronco has done a great job and he understands what he needs to do in order to be successful, the question is can he do it?
Also, regarding Manti…
If he wants to be the “Star” on campus, and if he wants to be recognized as a NFL player who also happens to be LDS, then he should come to BYU.
If not, go to USC. He’ll be one of a half dozen stars, he’ll have to compete for his job, but when he goes to the NFL, he’ll be less known as a LDS guy.
As great as Gnata is at Baltimore, he would be more recognizable to his LDS family had he gone to BYU.
NFL scouts do find players wherever they are, but let’s not make the mistake of saying players can’t become strong members/people at other schools. BYU is a great places, but it has it’s problems just like every school -they just might not be as visible.
One of those advantages Bronco has is the atmosphere he has built around the team at BYU. He places importants on all kinds of life and he has built a program that is churning out high caliber individuals.
Why would any non lds stud from texas or california want to go to byu?
Quinn,
I totally agree, that you can be or become a strong member at any other school. I’m simply stating that if it is a goal of a NFL/NBA star to be ALSO recognized as a representative of the church, it’s automatic, and I think the results/evidence in professional sports speaks for themselves.
I had good friends attend Stanford and other schools that were outstanding members of the Church and continued on as such after school.
Still, when you think of Danny Ainge, Steve Young, etc…one also thinks of BYU and them being LDS as well.
Chris,
Ask Ty Detmer. There was a time, but i think those days may be fewer now.
A lot of the schmucks at cougarboard frequently harp on winning the recruiting battle for Utah athletes. I just scratch my head.
We use a lot of battle metaphors in football and for me winning the Utah recruiting ‘battle’ is a pyrrhric victory. The State has lots of wonderful athletes. But it’s much too small a State to fill out a high level D-1 college football roster by itself.
Moreover, as a Mormon first and a football fan second, I don’t buy the argument that concentrating all the Mormon athletes at BYU is what’s best for the Church.
Nothing personal, Tony, but I’m not persuaded that Gnata or Kevin Curtis or any of the Mormon Utah alums in the NFL would do the Church prouder if only they had achieved their stardom to BYU.
Oftentimes it’s an issue of timing.
My recollection is that coming out of high school and then Snow College that Curtis got passed over by BYU and Utah. At the time, USU was the only team in the state that could give him the kind of playing time that would make him the star he became.
I’ve got a good friend in Washington DC area (a stake president, in fact) who was Randall Cunningham’s center at UNLV. He wanted to go to BYU after his mission, but LaVell didn’t need a center at that time. He got a scholarship offer at UNLV and had a nice career. Had he walked on at BYU, he might not ever have snapped a ball. But at UNLV he started, was active at the LDS Institute and on campus and is a respected alumnus; he was chief of staff for a US Senator!
I would argue that there’s plenty of instances like that when all three parties: BYU, the athlete, and the other school, are better served when the athlete chooses the other school.
Moreover, I would say that the Church is oftentimes better served by LDS athletes (RM’s especially) who spread out across the country and instill their values in locker rooms and campuses other than BYU.
We think of one of the purposes of BYU Football is to serve as a kind of missionary effort for the Church. But if Mormon athletes are ‘missionaries’ in that effort ask yourself if it’s more productive to send all of them to the ‘Mission Home?’ Or, is it better that some go to the Mission Home and some go to the ‘Mission Field?’
I think we are to worried about the recruiting thing here, I was looking on scouts inc and byu as of right now was ranked with the 32nd or so recruiting class, thats pretty decent, and utah was quite a few spots below us i dont remember their exact number ( i think it was around 45 or so ) and we at least have shots at teo and heaps, two of the top players in the country, whereas utah doesnt. Why would you want to go to utah if you are a stud player when you could go to a pac ten or big 12 school ? If you are an LDS kid i think you lean towards byu more often than not. So in short I think we’ll be fine and our recruiting class is shaping up nicely. Now we just need to recruit someone thats better than a geriatric old man with Alzheimer’s to play in our secondary.
It was said by someone that BYU is the place to go if you want to not only become a good player, but a good person and have your testimony strengthened as well. It’s often said that NFL scouts will find you even if you’re at BYU and your games are on the Mtn.
I’m not sure this is the strategy we want to bet the farm on. It’s not as if you can’t become a good person and have your testimony strengthened at USC. And even though you’ll be more visible to NFL scouts, there’s a decent chance the Spirit might find you there too.
Point is, we’re counting on players going to BYU for the non-football stuff, and betting the football stuff will find them there despite. If you’re a talented player, why not go to a school for football stuff and count on spiritual stuff finding you there despite? It seems our strategy is geared towards those who don’t have the “big football” opportunities elsewhere. For players with those opportunities, I just don’t see the BYU strategy as a can’t-pass-up option.
If I’m wrong, please enlighten me.
There are recruits out there for byu which will help us win games. It is the lds athlete that is most likely going to succeed in the strict environment. So why waste time going after kids who are going to transfer. We are air force on steroids and can win a lot of games but we will never be usc.
Staff
You might have a point about the Utah kids if it weren’t for the fact that most of this years starters were from out of state too. So if you’re implying that this years team wasn’t as good as the last couple years because of the poor Utah boys then your grasping at straws.
Also, the top teams in Utah consistently hold their own against top out of state competition. For example, Skyline alone has beaten the state champs from Hawaii and Arizona, beat a team from Florida in Florida (who IIRC took state), as well as teams from Nevada and Colorado(Both on the Road).
Lastly NOBODY thinks we should ONLY get Utah players. Only that we should try to get the BEST Utah players. (i.e. the kid that committed even though he had offers from LSU etc.)
Staff,
While I agree in principle, that BYU needs to make sure to look outside of Utah for recruits, I also look at it practically. Honestly what are the chances that a non-LDS kid from TX or CA is going to actually want to subject themselves to the honor code for the sake of football, and in many cases actually pick BYU over other big name schools?
It’s frustrating to lose recruits, and honestly I think Bronco realizes that if he pushed harder out of state, he may lose those recruits AND the ones in-state that he would be focusing less on as well.
As long as Bronco recognizes that he hasn’t found the perfect balance and continues to strive to recruit better (whatever balance of in-state/out-of-state that ends up being) I’m okay with it.
In a nutshell I think it’s silly to say we should be recruiting 60/40 in-state or whatever. Let’s go get the best talent that is willing to play under the HC that there is. If most are from Utah, fine. If there are some (like Reed, Chambers, Detmer, etc) that aren’t, then awesome, but I’m not going to stress myself out about it too much.
Matt,
We may not get the top 50 guys but don’t forget about Mike Reed, Sete Aulai, Curtis Brown, O’Niel Chambers, JJ DiLuigi, etc. It can be done.
Petey…I have to ask, when did Skyline play and beat the State Champs from Arizona?
I grew up in UT and have lived in AZ for the past 11 years so I am familiar with HS programs from both states. The 5-A champs in AZ for the past few years have been Hamiliton (3-times), Brophy, & Mt. View. When did Skyline ever play any of these schools?
As for recruiting, I think it will be interesting to see Whitingham’s recruits as they begin to take the field this next year. Specifically, their continual emphasis on speed vs size on Defense. It worked this year, although they definitely had the breaks they needed, i.e., vs OSU & TCU, but I wonder how long that will work given the adjustments that coaches will inevitably make to counter the speed on the edges and the zone blitzes. At some point some team is going to line up and pound the ball right up the middle (kind of like what BYU should have done given their personnel this year) and expose the weakness that comes from smaller, quicker D-Lineman. Then what will they do? Especially since this will probably happen on Sitake’s watch and then it will be interesting to see what a first year D-Coordinator will do.
It was in the early to mid 90’s. I think the school they played was Mt. View. We went down there once and they came up to SLC once. We beat them both times.
All – good posts. I have to admit sometimes I post just so that I can get the follow-up comments by email.
Being in Texas, it is an absolute must for BYU to recruit nationwide, and in the Polynesian islands. Volleyball and basketball teams have taken that internationally with some success. I would say that the emphasis would be on the top Utah players as a priority, then afterwards CA and TX, then east coast. I live in TX now and the high school talent is amazing. These towns love their football and support the high school teams like JC or even colleges in other states. Just picking up 1-3 players from those venues will be a success – McKay, O’Neill, Bradley were good pickups for us.
Playing time is what will get players here. Playing for the BYU system will attract players. Finally, playing for Bronco will attract the players. Other than that, I don’t want them – go elsewhere if you want the college party life, NFL exposure, etc. Ask O’Neill why he picked BYU? I think he realized that he might get signficant PT as a freshman. While he didn’t play as much as I think he did get quite a bit. DiLuigi? Too small to play at other schools (though he was recruited by other schools), and I think he also felt like he could get on the field for BYU. So, BYU will lose the Haloti Ngata / Manti Te’o talent, but we’ll be able to pick up a Gooch, Collie, Jacobsen most years. And that’s good enough for me.
Utah may have gotten NC consideration this year if they: 1) started higher in the polls and 2) had a good PR campaign, like a slogan or something that would be easily adopted by every sports announcer in the nation. As much as “Quest for Perfection” gets dogged this year, if K Whit had done this up north, they would have greater media exposure. As it is, USC gets more consideration for #1 and Utah beat the team that beat USC.
For MWC teams and athletes to get national exposure, they need the PR, especially because of the TV anonymity in Markell’s Rivals article link. I remember Detmer winning the Heisman. Yes, the “tie” campaign was certainly a bit hokey and reeked of a sunday school lesson, but it got the job done. He rode that PR campaign and a victory over Miami all the way to New York.
Fly under the radar, and you get what Utah had this season. A stellar, anonymous season for the ages. I haven’t been to RES lately, but do they have a banner that says “BCS Bowl Victories: 2004 Sugar, 2008 Sugar”. If not, they should unveil it next season.
Petey,
I was not comparing the success of last years team to the SUCCESS of this years team. I am saying that in the future if we are going to continue to be a strong team we better get outside Utah too.
Of course the example was Skyline…just like Hawaii’s example would be Kahuku. If we get 1 or 2 from there so be it, but face it every Utah school is not Skyline. Just there are more athletes outside Utah than inside Utah. Its a numbers thing. All the high schools in Utah probably equal all the high schools in San Diego alone. There are 5 high schools within 4 miles of my house and they have some RIDICULOUS athletes. So good in fact I wrote Coach Mendenhall about a bunch of them. I went to a lot of HS games in Utah when I was there and it is just not the same. The only one that was maybe up there was the Skyline Kahuku game.
Very good blog Quinn. I am a Utah alum and die hard U fan, and I knew Quinn’s brother, Doug, in law school. That is how I ended up here. I heard about the site and thought I could get Doug’s info. (Quinn can you send that to me?).
While I’m here I’d like to comment. First, I have honestly been very impressed with “Cougar Nation’s” response to Utah’s season and big win. As hard as it has been, Educated Y fans understand what this type of season can do for the conference, and BYU. I sense most Y fans attitude is, “Way to shove it in their face (alabama’s and all MWC haters), it was great to see, congratulations, but now I will go back to hating you!” Which is understandable. Now I think, as Utah fans, it is our turn to root for you to beat Okla. Can you imagine Utah taking down Alabama to end this season and BYU taking down Oklahoma to open up the next season? Nothing could be better for the conference. So with that said, good luck.
Second, in order for byu to succeed I think they need to 1) Not be so narrow-minded in recruiting and expand their philosophy to look more like Lavell’s (recruit a good mix of in-state, out-of-state, and JC guys); 2) BYU needs to drop the attitude that “if we prepare, run our stuff, execute, etc. then we will win.” While Gospel doctrine dictates that there are rewards (blessings) for obedience and hard work, football is not soley an exercise in self-determination. External factors must be considered. Alabama didn’t believe this in their game against Utah. They just thought they could come in and run their stuff without a specific game plan for the opponent. While Utah prepared their plays diligently they also had a specific game plan for Ala. Same thing happened in the Utah v. BYU game. Utah had a specific game plan for Max Hall and company and they executed it to perfection. BYU seems to just think they can do their thing and that will be enough. It’s almost like they don’t think the other team has game tape and that the other team also practices and works hard. Two Examples: 1) Kruger’s interception on Max Hall this year. Even if every BYU player “executes” that play perfectly they cannot account for Kruger reading the play (based off film study) and going to the spot he knew Max was going to throw the ball; 2) The Utah v. BYU game last year and this year. BYU should have run the ball more, but they were so stubborn thinking that if they just executed on their pass plays they would win. Hello! The run was working, Max was way off and Utah’s DBs were quicker and getting to the ball before the BYU guys, they knew the plays and knew where to go….it didn’t matter that BYU had practiced those plays 3,000 times or ran precise routes. Whether BYU has specific game plans for each team, I don’t know, but it sure didn’t look like it and their comments sure don’t indicate that. Bottom line, recognize that it just isn’t about you, but that the other team has something to do with the outcome as well.
Anyway, Good luck going foward. Lets hope both teams can keep this MWC momentum going…with Utah leading the way of course.
Staff,
I get what you’re saying about the #’s thing. Like I said before, I don’t think anybody believes we should only recruit Utah. But we definitely shouldn’t ignore the top talent in Utah because year in and year out Utah is producing some very good players (i.e. Bryan Kehl, Harvey Unga, Stanley Havili).
I might be remembering this wrong but I thought that when the season began we were slaughtering Utah with the in-state recruits. Out of the top 20 I think we had 13 and they had 6 with one going to USU. Anyone?
Also, we definitely need to hit the streets and head out of state. There are some studs here BUT we need to hit up Hawaii, California, Florida, Texas, etc. If I’m not mistaken their are more LDS in CA than in Utah, get out and find them. Collie and… I hate to say it because he was a bust after he left but nonetheless a very high recruit… Olsen and others didn’t just fall into our lap, Crowten and company had to get out their and convince their parents that any other school would lead their kids down the wrong path. Then the parents convince the kid and vwalla! they sign with BYU. Shoot, we even got Ronny Jenkins to commit to BYU! That kid didn’t even have an ounce of morals, trust me I know cause I’m from down there. It seems like we settle with what comes to us and that we don’t do enough targeting of the big dogs as much as we used to.
Josh,
Nice post…you nailed it w/ the “execution vs. preparation/game film/attitude, etc.” I know second hand that Austin and others have grown tired of the “execution.” They had enough talent, in my opinion to beat Utah and UA this year, but they were out coached, and their heads were right for the UA game.
TCU beats them regardless.
Awesome season to the Utes! I’d rather it had been the Cougars, but Utah deserves all the props and more.
I’m not sure the recruiting philosophy Bronco is currently using should be denigrated just yet. Keep in mind, when he took over around Christmas in 2005, that class was pretty much already set up.
Bronco’s first real recruiting class was the 2006 class. And that class is mostly still on missions. On top of that, there’s the issue where BYU had so many holes to fill from attrition from the Crowton era & the transition to Bronco. Considering how little Bronco’s had to work with, I still feel he’s done an amazing job.
Let’s wait until the 2010 & 2011 season & see just how Bronco’s recruits do before we make any final decisions regarding his recruiting philosophy.
I’ll also just throw out there a few points:
A By-State look at the 2009 recruiting class (as of 1/7/09, according to scout.com):
CA: 4
CO: 1
HI: 1
OK: 1
OR: 1
TX: 1
UT: 9
Exactly 50% of this year’s class thus far is from Utah. And keep in mind, this year’s group of kids from Utah are widely considered one of the best classes to EVER come out of Utah. Indeed, all three four-star commits BYU has thus far are from Utah.
How does this match up with previous years? Well, in 2008:
CA: 6
CO: 1
FL: 1
HI: 2
TX: 3
UT: 10
WA: 2
Only 10/25 commits from Utah last year.
In short, I don’t think the recruiting base is as limited as is being implied – at least not in terms of locale.
Byu is THE place to go for BYU sports period. I think too many LDS people get tired of being shunned by the people of the world with no morals or respect for Heavenly Fathers rules and so they stutter. I think Bronco Mendenhall has added to the opportunities available to an Lds man by providing for the gifted, support to become their best! I cant wait for the 2009 season even if the Cougs only win 9 or 10 games. I love BYU for the choice that it takes to go there and for the choice that do.
I like Matt’s philosophy above (Matt Says: January 5th, 2009 at 11:51 pm) – “Let’s get the best talent that is willing to play under our HC there is, if they’re from Utah, fine, if they’re from elsewhere, fine.”
Everyone knows BYU should get the best athletes and recruits possible. What I like about Bronco is that he puts forth a concrete outline of how to achieve this. 1. Focus on the top in-state athletes. 2. Focus on the top LDS athletes. 3. Use BYU’s alumni base to find out-of-state and non-LDS athletes who are “likely” to succeed in the BYU environment.
I hear everyone say, “We need to get the top LDS recruits.” But no one offers a plan of how to accomplish this mission. Bronco actually sets forth specific steps to achieve these goals and let’s his staff go out and recruit. Now, whether the players are coddled or whether they should want to come to BYU is open to debate, but I like how Bronco is honest about the challenge for a non-LDS player to come to BYU and succeed.
I don’t feel like BYU is THE place to go for the LDS athlete. I think there are many more factors. Staff and other former players have posted that the comraderie among teammates is what is lasting and is what they played for on Saturday – so that you could achieve success with your buddies (Band of Brothers). So, if I were an LDS athlete and saw a cohesive unit and my best friend or cousin was at that school, I may choose to attend there to join in their “Band of Brothers”. If there were unit/team activities outside of football, that may factor in.
If I were a decent athlete, but were only going to school to get the best education possible, I may choose Stanford/Harvard, so that I could prepare for my future (nonathletic) career.
If my family was poor and couldn’t travel to watch my games, I might choose to play closer to home, or at least play in a league where they could watch me on TV.
If a school happened to be “stocked” at my position and I knew it would be difficult from the “get-go” to get PT I might go somewhere else.
If I was struggling academically, I might go to a less rigorous academic institution.
If I felt that I needed to be an LDS example among non-LDS athletes I may choose to go somewhere else.
If I didn’t want to go to the snow, I’d go to a warmer climate.
In short, I see the athlete’s choice similar to any important professional or personal decision (such as choice of employer, career or even spouse). So, no, it’s not an automatic that LDS athletes should go to BYU, nor should it be.
I do agree that a BYU graduate is more likely to be associated by the layperson with the LDS church. I would bet Jim McMahon, who has never professed to live by BYU/LDS standards, has had to answer the question, “Aren’t you Mormon?” more than anybody…
Let’s get a list of LDS athletes who have achieved at a college other than BYU who have succeeded. I’ll start with “Mad-Dog” Mark Madsen, the standout hoops player from Stanford.
To the below comment, I add my perspective as a fan. I think the recruiting mentality works, becuase the product on the field is much more enjoyable to watch. Having attended BYU during the losing seasons, I’d much rather have a team that may not be as talented that plays to the best of their ability, than a team that may be talented and doesn’t play as hard. The team was losing, and to make matters worse, their were off the field incidents that brought some shame to the program. While they can’t always be eliminated, I think the team under Bronco is more disciplined, due in part to the tenents below.
“I hope we land the recruits, but I’m concerned.
Seems Bronco’s motto of
1. God/Church
2. Family
3. Academics
4. Service
all before football are now ringing true, but I guess that’s ok. I thought it would be that way as Bronco took over but after the early success, I guess I raised my expectations too.
Go Cougars!”
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