Quinn on practice, we’re talking about PRACTICE…
Not the game, but practice…..oh, the famous words of Allen Iverson. Yet, to bring things into perspective Iverson is a freakishly talented professional athlete. I shouldn’t have to point out the differences between college athletes and professional athletes. They are not marginal.
I would like to take you back a few years. Bronco is a ambitious defensive coordinator and it is the Monday before we play Stanford in Palo Alto. The Cougars had just been handed a tough loss and Coach Mendenhall was eager to make a statement. That week -which I have no problem calling Hell Week- was nothing short of the hardest, most physical, practices of my career. The first 3 days of practice from the moment we stepped on the practice field was full contact, but not to the ground.
It was tough…you know manly, like red meat, dirty hands, and Cowboy boots -but the pokes still suck.
Oh and by the way, BYU lost that game and the defense played horrible.
Yet, on the other hand I have been a part of some very little practices where we have both won -and played well- and lost and could have played better. Both styles have merit and both have positives and negatives.
What would I do. Well, looking at BYU I see a young team with potential and talent. I also see some very seasoned players in key spots, where an injury would be devastating. One way to handle that is to give more reps to the younger guys and let the veterans sit out and take “mental reps” -which turns into joking and talking about facebook or whatever is going on that day. Although that could have just been me 
With BYU current player mix of underclassmen and veterans, I would lean more towards spirited practices with a lot of yelling and encouragement. Mistakes wouldn’t be taken lightly, most of all mental one, and I would rely on my veterans to keep everyone engaged in the practice. This would means daily meetings with the leadership council -short and after practice- to asses each days production and tempo. BYU’s team/position leaders should have a finger on the programs pulse and should be able to gauge each days practice. If your leadership council says it was easy, but they can’t breath and their limping around…well you might wont to give them a “lighter” practice the next day. If they are eager and excited about their day, well then stay with what works. This type of responsibility takes time to develop, but Bronco has guys on the field that have been in the program for ages and aren’t afraid to stand up and speak their minds. Rely on those players to help you in manipulating the practice structure in order to maximize efficiency and production -both on the player and position level.
Has the current practice structure resulted in our teams losses. NO! The fact that BYU hasn’t made enough plays to win games are the reasons for our current record. Don’t lose sight of the fact that the individual players have to accept ownership for their performances and put in the time and effort necessary to produce wins. When is the last time you say Coach Hill miss a tackle that went for a TD, or Coach Mendenhall blow a coverage or not get pressure on the quarterback and give up a huge first down. Have I missed Coach Anae displaying poor footwork and pass blocking technique resulting in a collapsing pocket. Hopefully, you get what I am trying to say.
If players think their practices are too easy, then they should say something. If they feel like being more physical during team work sessions of practice, then by all means start blowing up walk-ons like fireworks on the 4th. You might get a “talking to” but your impact could spark a few fires in a few other players, which could then lift the spirit of the practice.
I remember very vividly how hard the Poppinga brothers worked during practice. When it was a physical day, then heads rolled. When it was a light day, shoulder pads popped. When it was a jersey day they ran hard and played fast. I hope the work ethic of past players -that struggled through 6-4 seasons- hasn’t been lost among the ohhs and ahhhs of a few Las Vegas Bowls.
I hear players nowadays get kicked out of practice for being a little aggressive (to the point of a fight breaking out). This is like neutering your stud. Might as well put skirts on our boys and call them a dance troupe. Not sure that the same spirited practices are still going on…maybe I’m wrong.
Gooch, thanks for the insight about what is going on in practices. I have believed for several seasons now that a BYU loss has nothing to do with the way the team practices. I’m looking forward to BYU bouncing back and having a great game against Wyoming.
I’m gonna go watch the clip of Iverson right now on Youtube. I’m in the mood for a good laugh…
Well with football only being #5 on the priority list it’s no wonder BYU is getting rolled at home.
Bronco wants to be the best team in the nation but he isn’t willing to put in the 18 hour days that other coaches are.
It was nice to watch a football game tonight and see some emotion. Watching BYU is like watching a bunch of robots.
Hopefully they get it together by the Utah game, but don’t count on it.
Vase you really want a good laugh from a bball player? Watch Ron Artest’s post game interview after game 3(?) of the Rockets/Lakers series. That’s comical.
Oh that Stanford week. Even in the Friday walk through we did like 100 plays. My legs were so dead on Saturday night, I thought I was in quicksand the whole time.
Thanks for the insight. Exactly what I was looking for.
Quinn,
I’m a little confused about the timeline in the 2nd paragraph. You mention the team coming off a tough loss the monday before heading to Palo Alto, but if my memory serves me correct the previous game that year (2004?) was a home win against Brady Quinn and the Fighting Irish.
The Stanford games are ones I’d like to forget. The first one was a home loss where we should’ve won and the origin of Crowton’s infamous, “I’d rather win by 12 than 2″ comment. The 2nd game significance was that it was Matt Berry’s last chance to take away the starting job from the injured John Beck but then he got injured himself and never started a BYU game again. After that game, it was clear that win or lose this was now John Beck’s team.
Quinn,
What do you have to say about multiple off-the-record reports from players in the secondary that there is a strong player dislike for Coach Hill both personally and as a coach? Is that weak-minded, pampered, lazy players talking or a coach who lacks people and/or leadership skills or a little of both?
Also is there anything that can be done when things degenerate to that point?
Thanks
I’m a little fuzzy on the timeline. All I know is that week sucked.
As for Coach Hill being disliked, that is coming from players who are weak-minded, pampered and lazy..all three…Coach Hill is a great coach -very demanding- and has great character. I can imagine some players not liking him, but hey I didn’t like all coach equally either. Every person has their own “flavor” and well some just don’t taste good.
I would check the sources about those comments. Most likely the “player” thought he was better than he actually was.
The Coaches themselves usually stand up and take responsibility for poor play, or a loss. They understand, in college sports, coaching makes the difference. While BYU may not always attract the best athletes, coaching, game planning, (Oklahoma) work ethic and pride can overcome lots of short comings. Coaches need to look carefully at the way the oversee the entire program to keep the results positive. They have to ‘Love’ the process!
“As for Coach Hill being disliked, that is coming from players who are weak-minded, pampered and lazy.. all three…”
So Cole Miyahira and Jordan Pendleton are weak-minded, pampered, and lazy?
I don’t know about Cole Miyahira, but ya, Jordan Pendelton is a weak minded (thinks he is a stud should not have to do the things that us mere mortals have to do like practice)and he is very much a pampered Kid.
I don’t want to call anyone out because this thread is about a specific coach I have never met. That disclaimer aside, I can’t agree with you Quinn.
You post:
As for Coach Hill being disliked, that is coming from players who are weak-minded, pampered and lazy..all three…Coach Hill is a great coach -very demanding- and has great character. I can imagine some players not liking him, but hey I didn’t like all coach equally either. Every person has their own “flavor” and well some just don’t taste good.
I would check the sources about those comments. Most likely the “player” thought he was better than he actually was.
You state two different things in the first paragraph. One thing is true and one isn’t. You correctly point out that you didn’t like all coaches equally and every person has their own flavor. Despite acknowledging this, you state that all players who don’t like Coach Hill are (1) weak-minded, (2) pampered, (3) lazy, and (4) think they are better than they are.
Everyone has seen a coach take an underperforming player and raise their level. Some coaches just “click” with some kids. Others of us have seen an otherwise good coach who makes a particular player worse. People are different and they respond to different stimuli. Not all players will perform well under Jaime Hill’s style. Not all players will perform well under Bronco’s style. To say that those players have certain general character flaws as a result of a style clash is unfair to the players and intellectually inconsistent with the rest of your post.
Personally, I would never be willing to play for a coach like Bronco. I like my life compartmentalized and I like religion in its compartment, not in the sports compartment. Does that mean he is a bad coach? No. Does it mean I have negative attributes? Only if you think a desire for compartmentalization is a negative attribute.
I think we would do well to acknowledge that sometimes kids go places to play sports and don’t think about the coach they will be playing for. When they get there, if they are lucky, they can change positions or in some other way distance themselves from the coach. That doesn’t mean they are flawed individuals. They could be, but it doesn’t mean it.
Quinn,
I agree with your take that players need to take responsibility and be accountable for what happens on the field. I wish we saw a little bit more of it on the field. But you almost make coaches sound useless. I wonder if you are partly downplaying the role of coaches because BYU has been so thoroughly outcoached in the big games.
Yes it is true that Coach Hill has not missed any on-field assignments or tackles. But he did decide to try and cover Jeremy Kerley with a LB on multiple 3rd and longs. He is the one that decided not to install nickel or dime packages. He is the one that dropped seven into coverage the majority of the time against TCU and FSU no matter what the down and distance was.
I would argue that a done of the issues with the FSU and TCU games are on the coaches. It seems like a colossal failure to scout the opponent and game plan appropriately. That is actually what was so refreshing about the Wyo game. We had a real game plan to countact what they do well. We ran screens and misdirection to neutralize their pressure and overpursuit. We sent heavy pressure on D when we had them in a down and distance that was favorable to the D. And we sent some different kind of blitzes. We actually sent 6 guys a few times.
Casey,
Why do people think that religion and football should be seperate? this is not true, unless you are a sunday only religious person.
which then begs the question, why do you go to church then? because if it is not in ALL your activities, then it really does not do you any good (Joseph Smith).
That being said, I see no problem with someone who plays hard and is agressive on the field, but does not have to act like others on the field.
As for Hill, your right not everyone digs a particular type coach, but to go to the coach and say “we aren’t having fun”? But in my experience, if you do learn from even these type coaches then you are missing on some valuable learning moments.
Floyd,
To paraphrase an excellent movie, I consider myself fairly educated but I’m afraid I can’t comment on why PEOPLE think football and religion should be separate. I can tell you why I think they should be separate but I believe I already made that clear in my post above. I recognize that compartmentalizing your life isn’t the way everyone does things but everyone does it to one degree or another. I have no problem with the football player being godly men. I think there is a positive in keeping your life balanced. That said, I don’t think the purpose of a football team is religious edification. If it was the purpose, we wouldn’t look at their 40 time, we would look at their scripture chase time instead.
The most amazing part about your post, Floyd, is that it focuses on an example and ignores the point. The point is, not every player is the same. Some, like you, want to have a religious experience on the field. If they are that way, they play better. Some, like me, think that stuff is extraneous and off topic for football. It doesn’t mean one of us has the right approach and the other the wrong approach but it does mean a different coach would be best for each of us. You would be inspired by a coach who quoted from Alma and had firesides. I would be inspired by a coach who cursed me out for missed assignments.
As for the Coach Hill stuff, I personally love the guy! But I can see why other would really dislike him, just as I highly disliked other coaches on the staff that other players liked. I disagree with Quinn on the Lazy, pampered …ect remark! I know that a few of his current players that are none of those things dislike him! Coach Hill has made comments flat out to players like, ” none of you are good enough to play at the next level” to his DB’s, and although this might be true ( probably is, in my opinion ) I believe that in a coaches position things like that should never be said. My favorite coaches were those who bred or even created confidence in me. I can see why any coach would not be liked,( Except for Reynolds) because every player has different personalities. I can also see why players can like a coach as a person and not as a coach. I like coach Tidwell a ton as a person, and coach Lamb too, off the field they are great guys. On the field, I think they are terrible coaches. I have been a part of 9 different coaching staffs on the college and Pro level. I have had over 10 different position coaches and I believe that those 2 are two of the least effective coaches and teachers of my position I have been around. Great guys, crappy coaches…My Opinion! Anyways, getting back to Coach Hill, I think he’s a good guy and a good Coach. My opinion! But other players are entitled to theirs too, without being labeled as lazy, pampered, ect…… I love Quinn, and he knows his stuff, but I disagree on this one.
My two cents on the Football and Spiritual separation…. I think its up to you! No matter what is pushed from coaches and other players you still get to pick what you want to do, you have your own choice. My senior year at BYU, I chose to stay at the hotel and rest and prepare mentally in a different way, then going to Firesides. I thought it was cool, if thats what you wanted to do, but I would rather watch a movie the night before or visit with the guys. I personally thought some of the activities were overkill, but you always had a choice so I just chose what I wanted to do. I was able to attend a fireside, and thought it was pretty awesome, just not my favorite thing to do night before a game.
Wow, Wags, what a great take! Very revealing and insightful.
Thanks Aaron,
It’s always nice to get a fresh and honest perspective on the coaching staff from another former player. The criticism of coach Lamb is nothing new and has been going on for years with other former players but that’s the first I’ve heard of Tidwell getting thrown under the bus. Other former players like Luke Staley gave Tidwell a lot of credit their achievements at BYU. Maybe he just needs to back to coaching RB’s. I’m interested in getting Markell’s take on this as he was a LB too.
I totally agree with Aaron Wagner – very well said. I also think Quinn ought to recall his statement about being lazy, pampered and weak minded – I think there are very few (if any) lazy, pampered and weak minded guys that could deal with some coaches on a day to day basis and survive mentally if they are weak minded – Like Aaron said – kids have been told that they were not good enough to play on this level and why are they here, etc. etc. etc. How could a weak-minded, lazy and pampered player survive hearing that unless they were strong minded, confident and a hard worker willing to do whatever it takes to get on the field. To my knowledge – Quinn was one of Coach Hill’s favorites – so of course he loved him – Quinn could screw up a million times and still be on the field and then it was funny when it was time to watch film. Very poor choice of words Quinn. Oh also, several of the players sitting on the sideline were better and should’ve been playing.
Hey Aaron,
You stated, “I believe that in a coaches position things like that should never be said.” in reference to a coach indicating a player wasn’t good enough to play at the next level, which I agree with. Don’t you think, however, that a former player coming onto a public site and singling out by name a couple of coaches and stating they are terrible is equally inappropriate?
I agree with “Getdal.” To have meaning, Aaron Wagner’s opinion would need to be backed up by a consensus of all the former players and that’s not going to happen here. He may feel strongly that changes are needed, but I don’t think he should target coaches personally in a public forum.
I have stated in My comments that these were not personal attacks against the coaches, I like them both alot as men, and I also mentioned that this was my Educated opinion. I have experienced a lot of coaches and that is my opinion, weather they would be better suited for other positions because of knowledge experience and so forth….who knows? But I am just giving my opinion, and I don’t think its inappropriate because its a message board post on that subject, and much different then a respectable position like a coach coming down on a player and destroying confidence. Players play best with confidence, and so I believe coaches should be builders. That is their job. My calling out coaches or stating my opinions is not diminishing my job credentials or anything of that nature, i was never placed in a position that i needed to build up the coaches. When I was there, I never called them out to the media or others, i shut up, did things the ways they wanted despite being treated with little to no respect as is still common with current players. But now I feel as though I have the right to voice my opinions and be real and open and honest. There are many players that feel the same way as I do, many that are in the NFL and and many that were good players at BYU that have never voiced it and probably wont, I obviously wont name them, but I can tell you that my feelings are not rare!
Aaron,
Thanx for responding. You defend calling the coaches crappy and terrible in a public forum with “it was your educated opinion”. Isn’t it the coaches “educated opinion” (in which you even indicated you agreed with) that the players were not talented enough for the next level. You further stated that it wasn’t “inappropriate because its a message board post on that subject, and much different then a respectable position like a coach coming down on a player and destroying confidence.” While I agree, the coach to the player will probably have more effect/damage, I also believe going on record in a public forum ripping on the coaches as a former player can’t have a real positive effect either. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but your statements are flying all over the place on multiple message boards and most likely will get back to coaches, players, and most certainly damage the confidence of many fans in those coaches. This will/is leading to more complaining and criticizing and frankly, I think there has been a disproportionate amount of that in relation to the accomplishments of the team/coaches.
You indicate that “players play best with confidence, and so I believe coaches should be builders”. I agree and think this applies on a smaller scale to coaches performing better with support.
Let me be clear, I do NOT think yours is the worse offense—I agree with what you are saying regarding the coaches, I just think that it also applies with what you said as a former player regarding the coaches—not on the same level though…I do get the difference with it being their job and all. And I do commend you on biting your tongue while you were a player.
Anyway, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, which has more weight than most around here regarding the coaches and program in general. I just think that airing it out in a public forum like this isn’t the most positive thing to do for the same reasons you indicated a coach has some responsibility to support his players, I would think a former player has a little more responsibility to former coaches that he supposedly really likes. This is based mostly on the effect that these statements has/will have to the general public.
getdal,
You didn’t read, didn’t understand or are intentionally ignoring his argument. Aaron has no “duty” regarding those coaches. The coaches have a duty regarding the players who play for them. In addition, Aaron is not in a position of authority over the coaches. The coaches are in a position of authority over the players they are criticizing. The differences between Aaron criticizing the coaches of a school he no longer plays for and coaches criticizing the players within their sphere of influence is a vaild difference.
Personally, I would think you would appreciate the information. I’m sure the coaches are already aware that some players don’t like them but some fans and some players think only whiners have problems with their coaches style, skill or personality. It is good to hear Aaron’s alternative opinion.
Most importantly, I believe it is more fair for Aaron to take the position he has than for Gooch to take the position he has. Gooch is making a blanket regarding the attributes of players that dislike Coach Hill. His base supposition is harsh and overly broad. Wagner, in defending those players, has given us a good counter example of why players might dislike a coach outside of Gooch’s unfair characterizations. He is defending the weaker guy and we should applaud him for it.
Casey, I did read and I think I understood Aaron’s post and did not intentionally ignore it, in fact, I specifically stated that I did see the difference with their job or as you (and Nacho Libre call it
“duty”. I just felt that (as I stated) on a smaller scale there is still some of that loyalty/duty/ whatever you want to call it to the coaches/program as a former player. Here is something that I should have been more clear on though—I have no problem with him feeling the way he does, even stating what he did, (and you’re right, I do like knowing/hearing this information) I just know what kind of negative impact that can cause in this day and age in such a forum–that is really the only thing I disagreed with him on…to call a specific coach crappy and terrible (especially if you supposedly like them) in a public forum like this.
As far as Aaron being more right than Gooch, I understand what you are saying, but to me, the big difference here was that Gooch didn’t name specific players and I don’t believe was even referring to anyone specific.
Anyway, this has turned into a bigger thing than I intended.
Getdal,
You have a point, and I shouldn’t have said some of the things I said. My apologies! Mostly to the hose Coaches. I dont think I have any sort of Loyalty to not speak the truth as a former player, but I do think it was inappropriate to specifically call those men out in a public forum, because i really do like them both.
This will get no credibility,and isn’t even a good excuse… but I did just have ACL surgery a few days ago, and had a few percocets in me for pain while I wrote that post.
Realizing now that i should not have been so transparent!
Aaron–it’s all good. I hope I didn’t come across as judgmental. I really thought it was a matter of you not realizing the repercussions/effect of those things stated in this forum, but had no problem with your opinion based on real experiences. Anyway, thanx for handling it maturely, and I actually do very much think that pain meds can cloud judgement
. I hope the surgery went well and you have a speedy recovery!
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