The Turnovers…
The one thing I didn’t mention in the Post Game wrap-up was the turnovers, which came early and often. I didn’t talk about them in the wrap-up because my post was turning into a novel. What hurt us the most last night were the turnovers came early in drives, which resulted in exceptional field position for the TCU offense. They were also very ugly turnovers. The defenders were just sitting there waiting for the interception, and the fumbles are a result of lack of concentration.
We put our defense is bad positions all night and they were unable to stop the Horned Frog offense on a consistent bases to give us a chance to win.
Turnover can be tough to swallow when you are struggling on defense. You finally get a stop and take a breath and than you are thrust back onto the field in a crappy situation. In those “sudden change” instances it is deemed successful if you can limit the offense to field goals. Normally field goals can’t win games, but if you can’t stop an offense it doesn’t matter. Our sudden change defense last night didn’ t hold up and with four turnovers -most of which lead to points- their is no way we could of expected to win.
It’s going to be a long Friday, and I don’t even know if I can watch my 9 hours of football on Saturday. I might have to limit it to 6. I need to sit one out and regroup for next week. I need to think long and hard about what we need to do against UNLV to steady the ship. Besides now that teams have seen us lose, they will be sitting in waiting ready to rub it in and get their due.
Isn’t UNLV another team that could give us fits? It seems that if you have a decent QB (can run and throw the ball- which UNLV does) line up 5 wide and if BYU plays the pass, run for a country mile. If byu plays the run, hit the open reciever. Any time a team has put 5 wide against us it seems as though we have no answer. UNLV could do this, but do they have the O-Line to pull it off?
Am I totally out in left field on this?
I’m just wondering if Max will finally realize he’s not as sick as he thinks he is. Seriously, I get tired of hearing him and Doman talk about how he is better than Beck, and then he doesn’t even show up. And just because Pitta and Collie and your best friends doesn’t mean you have to throw it to them in triple coverage. Max is a freaking head case, he’s a choker.
Overconfident and reckless, sometimes. A head case? That is something Max Hall is not.
I definitely think he’s a headcase. Max has been going downhill since the heisman talk started. He gets all this attention, then he doesn’t perform, then he gives the team excuses for not performing well, then doesn’t perform again, and so forth for the last 3 games. Tell me what good did those interceptions due for Max vs. Utah State? He thought he was so sick, throws some terrible passes against a terrible team, tries to make it seem like a good thing. He just needs to realize he’s not as good as he thinks he is. And he needs to shut up about being better than Beck until he actually proves that he is, which I don’t ever see happening. I think Gaskins could have had a comparable performance against TCU last night. And I definitely think Gaskins could have played better than Max did against Utah State. And I don’t see what Max did against UNM that Gaskins couldn’t do. I’m not an advocate of Gaskins, but I just don’t know why everyone thinks Hall is so unbelievable. He has done nothing to show me that he is going to be a BYU legend.
Casey, are you sure you really aren’t Gaskin’s father?
hahahaha. I’m sure. I’ve actually never met Gaskins. But I have met Max and several of his teammates, and I know how highly he thinks of himself.
Gees one bad game and all of sudden people are jumpig off the Max Hall bandwagon. Casey was probably wearing a Max Hall for Heisman shirt last week. I’m sick of hearing BYU fans jumping on and off the bandwagon. What a load of crap.
It’s hard to judge someone’s character but i’m in that same camp. I don’t think Max is a bad QB, in fact I think he’s an exceptional, he should be in the Heismann talk next year, but not if he keeps thinking he should be in the Heismann talk. It happens so often that someone performs well, is praised, and then thinks they can do now wrong. Max and Austin are two examples, they talk the talk in the interviews but I don’t believe it. They are big boys and it might just be time to hold them accountable for their actions. Austin keeps getting the numbers, but any half decent receiver would if their QB spent the whole game looking at them. Maybe Mark Lyons is on to something when he talks about Austin buying Max banana splits every day. Throw it to someone else underneath or in the flats for a change.
Actually Jared, I’ve never been a fan of Max’s. The guy has rubbed me the wrong way since the day I met him. You’re probably one of those people who thinks that he came to BYU because it represents his faith? That’s bull, he came to BYU because he THOUGHT he’d be 4th on the depth chart at ASU. I think he’s a good quarterback, but nothing unbelievable. And that’s the problem. Before he even played a down for BYU he was talking about how he was going to be the next great QB, and then we endured 1 season where he was guaranteed an INT and a fumble every game, but we passed it off as he’s just getting adjusted, and now what is his excuse for a 4 turnover performance? and 50% completion? Let’s just face it, he is mediocre.
I’ve met Max a couple times too, and I think he’s a stand up guy. He’s always been very polite. I want him to think he’s going to be the next great BYU quarterback. That confidence is something that helps make a great quarterback. Sure he has made some mistakes lately, but calling for Gaskins to be the starting QB is ridiculous. Remember in spring training the coaches didn’t even know if Gaskins was going to the third string QB. They had to given Austin Collie reps. Even Peytong Manning, Tom Brady and otther great quarterbacks have lousy games every now and then.
Hi Quinn, I really enjoy your blog, you are really positive all the time and I enjoy your unique insite into the cougars. Having said that, our defense never stopped tcu, they punted once. In the first half when the game was technically in doubt, TCU drove and scored on every possetion. I was really disapointed in the defense yesterday, I hope they can fix what is wrong but yesterday the defense was just broke.
How many 16 game winning streaks did Beck have? Not that I think Hall is better than Beck, but you’ve gotten a bit out of control with your criticism.
I never called for Gaskins to be the starter. I was just saying that in the last 3 games I have yet, and tell me if you have, to see something that Max has done that 80% of D1 QB’s couldn’t do. Seriously, we have a strong OL, great skill players, and a QB who will only throw the ball to 2 of them. JB’s bread and butter was the short little pass to Brown that went for a first down every time. But apparently Max is too good for that? He needs to throw it to his best friends in triple coverage. I think if we played any other QB, Covey or Gaskins, they wouldn’t have a 4 turnover performance, coupled with 6 sacks, 1 fumble that was recovered that lost a few yards, and 50% completion. Now tell me which game of Becks junior year did he perform that bad.
What bugs me as much or more then byu losing is watching the fans jump off the bandwagon. Byu reels off 18 straight wins then loses 0ne game and suddenly everyone questions the coaches ability to coach and the players ability to play. Face it there are other good teams out there and occasionally byu is going to lose. Give credit where dredit is due tcu won this game byu didn’t lose it. We obviously don’t have the national championship calibur team but we are pretty good.
16 game win streaks are a result of a team, not 1 individual. Our defense kept us in many games last year, like the New Mexico game, TCU game, Utah game, and both UCLA games. And I think that if Beck had the same OL that Max has and Collie to go with it, that we’d have been undefeated in 2006.
Hey Gooch, I’m interested to know if the players ever get wind of this kind of stuff where fans are so quick to jump off the bandwagon. What are the players attitudes about this kind of stuff. Do they ever think the fans are just idiots?
You’re right Chris we are good. But seriously, I want a NC. And I just feel so let down, that an opportunity that may NEVER happen again, a chance to play in the NC game was blown. If Max actually backs up half his talk we could have had a game. Either show up and play or quit telling the world how awesome you are.
Casey, I have to agree with you. If Beck had the th OL that Max has….wow!!!
I feel that Max is still developing, although I just don’t understand why he keeps throwing into coverage. Did something happen during the bye week. It’s a tale of two different quaterbacks.
I can answer that for you Jared. I personally know a dozen players on the team. Some of them read this, but most don’t waste their time. The players that I know think most fans are crazy and the media is worthless. And I’ll tell you this, two starters that I do know feel the same way I do about Max. It doesn’t make you a bad teamate when you think your QB is full of himself and a little overrated. I actually think it would have made them good teamates to bring that to his attention before, so that he couldn’t hurt the team like he did yesterday.
Let me say something here. I have not been impressed by Max’s decisions ALL YEAR. But a head case he is not. Max is a fighter and a competitor, as Bronco has said. You can not argue that. I do think he is over confident, but that is not always a bad thing to have in sports. Where he has errored of late is that he has thrown plenty of balls this year that were dropped interceptions. He could easily have 12/13 INTs right now (TCU dropped 3 in the first quarter last night). My disappointment in this is that he and Coach Doman have not addressed it in the film room. Max’s attitude should have been, “Man I got away with one there, let’s not make that throw again.” Instead what I have seen is an approach of, “Hey, they are not picks, so I am going to keep forcing the ball into triple coverage.”
AS TO CASEY TANNER…I agree with everything until the end…John did not need Collie because John knew how to use Meikle, Allen, Brown, Harline, Coats, Z. Collie, Jacobsen, Reed, Tonga…I am probably leaving people out.
Max does not progress through reads, just watch his head. And Anae has eliminated Nate Meikle’s position from the offense entirely. Both are big mistakes.
Greg it is more than a tale of two different QB’s, really it is tale of different defenses. It was not until after the bye that BYU has faced good defenses. (Although I was surprised UCLA’s D wasn’t better). The Offense fell asleep because they did not have to work hard against weak D’s
Staff,
So do you feel that the offense is a good as it was made out to be during fall camp? Did the loss of Tonga affect our offense more than I originally thought?
QUINN,
LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT THE D. What is going on with our prep for the offenses? I was so frustrated at Washington when I saw an empty set, and I leaned to my bro and said QB Draw (Locker TD). K Pop and John knew it was coming too. Last night at TCU Kerley at QB, empty set, I said, QB Draw, TD…I am getting frustrated with our pre-snap reads and game awareness. EVERYTIME, ANY OFFENSE motions a receiver into the box it is 100% run away from it (Motion man blocks backside edge). Help me out here, because although I could not predict every play, on the ones that I did predict pre-snap, I was 100%, and you know as well as I do that that stuff just comes natural after playing against the offenses and studying. Last night was the first time I saw TCU this year, and I had their offense pegged by the end of the 1st quarter.
Losing Manase was a huge deal, if Max would utilize him like Beck did. Fui is doing a great job as a blocking FB which is what Manase’s role is now. I don’t think that our offense is overrated, we are just not maximizing what is out there. Good offenses take what the defense gives them and then scores with the bread and butter. We try and throw to Pitta and Collie on EVERY play. That is to easy to defend. The most impressed I have been with our offense is two games ago when Pitta was covered and Max threw is to George for a TD. George and Pitta and equals, yet George hardly gets any touches.
ONE THING I HAVE NOT SAID YET THAT I FEEL SINCERELY IS THAT TCU CAME OUT LAST NIGHT READY TO PROVE A POINT AND WE CAME OUT “TRYING” TO PROVE A POINT. There was a real difference in attitude. We need to grab teams by the throat right from the start and let them know we mean business (UCLA). Last night we tried to feel our way down the field instead of attacking.
But our offense will never live up to it’s potential until we use all 11 players. Right now we may as well play with 8.
Markell, You have a great point about Beck not needing Collie.
But about losing Manase being a huge deal. I’m not so sure he would make any difference. Until Max starts using someone other than Collie and Pitta, it won’t matter who else we have out there.
So Staff,
The question is:
Are Doman and Anae going to sit down with Max and introduce him to Chambers, Ashworth, George, Hafoka, Kozlowski and others?
Where is 2008 Meikle? Is he not Kozlowski?
Staff- on a different note, is John fed up with the mess in Miami? Is there any hope for him to get out of that and get a real shot somewhere?
Sorry Markell I should have finished reading your entire post before I posted. I completely agree with you.
Quinn or any one else who knows,
It seems pretty obvious hall likes to throw to pitta and collie(too much). I heard part of byu’s simplicity on offense was breaking down the field into thirds or halves and giving the qb multiple options on one side of the field while also having an emergncy outlet out of the backfield. This would allow the qb to get the ball off quicker. Is this truly part of byu’s offense and does the offensive coordinator call plays to one side or the other?
The spread formation against our defense worked simple because our linemen, and DB’s where all laying on the ground because of cut blocks and the wholes #85 was running through where giant and well he was a better athlete then our linebackers. He simple made one person miss, ran by another who got cut blocked and it was another Horned Frog first down.
It’s not that our guys aren’t studying or learning but they aren’t making plays when they need to. Add the fact that the back seven don’t have a lot of experience/confidence in their abilities and they are a step behind. The reason our defense was good the past two years is we had a great player in the middle, experience at the other linebacker positions and a our DB’s while not the best looking -except for Ben, Corby and Kayle- made plays when the ball came their way and we studied the game like crazy. #21, #34, #14 all had good football IQ’s and we used that to help speed us up.
Our defensive back field is still developing their identity and after their first test of the season they will need to work through this tough loss and make some plays next week.
IT IS ALL ABOUT MAKING PLAYS. Other team have coaches that get paid good salaries to beat BYU. Scheming and such can do a lot to help, but until guys start making plays our coaching staff will be banging their heads against the wall.
Staff, what exactly does that mean to label someone a fighter/competitor. Is there someone on the team who is not a fighter/competitor? It just seems like some vague title that we give to someone when they don’t do good but don’t quit. I have yet to see anyone quit. I guess I just don’t view “fighter” as a compliment. Everyone called Kimbo Slice a fighter, and look where that bum is. It just doesn’t really say anything about the person.
Casey we get that you are not a Max Hall fan. Obviously he has rubbed you the wrong way and you personally know him somehow. You have vented that very passionately but honestly it sounds a little too personal to those of us who haven’t met Max.
Max couldn’t take the pressure of the last 5-6 weeks of Heisman hype and tightened up each game. I suspect Quinn or Staff could tell you that when you can relax and play the game slows down for you. When you feel the pressure and start to press the game speeds up. Max has been playing like the game is on fast forward for him since the UCLA beat down.
Now the pressure of all the National stuff is gone. Max has been properly humbled – which I gather you have been wishing for – I think we see a better BYU team and a better Max Hall in the weeks to come.
I think Staff is right. There is a fine line between being arrogant and confident. I have never seen a truly great athlete who didn’t have some swagger to him.
You’ve gotta remember 2006 was Beck’s senior year. The year before that everyone was calling for his head. Give Max some time. He’s still learning. I do wonder though what is going on in meetings that doesn’t help Max correct things. Having Collie out during spring training may have actually helped the offense since it required that they learn the system with out having Collie as the go to guy.
I have no personal vendetta against Max, nor did I wish he was properly humbled. I wanted a NC. I wanted another heisman at BYU. I love the school and I want us to have all the recognition in the world. I just don’t feel sorry for him. He talks like he’s all world and he can’t live up to it. Don’t we want a NC at BYU. I want a team and a QB that are mentally tough enough to deal with that kind of pressure. Again this is a chance that RARELY happens, that we could play in a BCS game and possible a NC, and Max was a huge let down. He needs to quit doing interviews with the NYTimes and USAToday about what a competitor he is and watch a little more game film. And someone should remind him, the when there are 3 guys on the other team around 1 guy on our team, regardless of it being your best friend, you shouldn’t throw the ball to him.
Quinn, I think you have the key here. Yes, TCU was fired up, but they were fired up two years ago also.
In first three drives in 2006, BYU maintains possession after a Vakapuna fumble, stops a TCU drive at the BYU 10 yd line and collects a fumble, and converts a 4th and 1 play in the ensuing TD drive. They establish momentum and an early 10-0 score, leading to the win.
In 2008, two early BYU turnovers and a failed 4th and 1 play allows TCU to take a 17-0 lead, which they keep the rest of the way.
Good golly oh mighty. Having seen every game BYU has played in person the last 3 years and missed maybe 3 in the last 10…. I was not surprised by last nights results.
We played against a team that was better coached and had football players more determined and motivated to make plays. Our team has weaknesses as big as the grand canyon. I am not just talking athletes and speed like others are saying (I believe we have what it takes to beat a team like TCU any day of the week), but we have bigger weaknesses in strategy and philosophy. People keep riping on Brandon Howard, but he didn’t let anyone beat him deep and he made the tackles. Did he have any safety help at all last night or linebackers underneath? Besides, what do you expect him to do when we constantly rush 3 to 4 the whole game and can’t get any pressure on the quarterback? Could Bronco make a major defensive strategy change in the middle of the game when plan A is not working? That just has never been anything Bronco has ever done so why would he start last night?
I think my mother could block Bauman and he couldn’t get off her block and make a tackle and if he somehow did he still couldn’t find the right gap. Bauman is not a read and react middle linebacker, but if you tell him to get someplace and have someone scrapping blocks in front of him he is good. Last night he was terrible and if not for 52 and 42 it would have been a lot worse. I actually didn’t think Fowler played too bad last night, and I have not been a fan of his much this year. However, I am sure he knows the defense inside and out.
Max Hall still gets up to the line (or the shot gun…. forget the I-formation that was generating 5 yards a play) looks at the double coverage over Collie…. gets the snap…. stares at Collie the whole time I assume thinking he may beat the double coverage and then …. endures self imposed helter skelter. Max Hall played more like Paul Shoemaker then Jim McMahon. No way Jim McMahon spends .5 seconds looking at the receiver who has obvious double coverage on 1st and 10. He had options to complete passes and move the ball down the field, but routinely gave those up for other riskier choices all night long. This was Max’s game like Beck had his two years ago to prove he was more then just an average BYU quarterback and he tanked it.
All this said, I still think we can win out the rest of the year (I am not a blue kool aid… blue google type of guy.) I don’t lie to myself, what is the point? Last night was simple and I think Quinn said it best in his post. SOMETIMES WHEN YOU PLAY NOT TO LOSE… YOU DO! We got lucky at Washington, but not last night. We need to go out there, have fun, fly around, light some people up… and get back to playing football like we want to destroy someone….. shut them out, and just win football games. We didn’t lose this game because of speed or anything like that. In my opinion we lost because of strategy and philosophy. We played trying not to lose instead of playing to win. TCU played to win.
Jared-
Let’s just see if in 2009 if we don’t have the “rebuilding the OL” excuse. Max has been in the program for 2.5 years. How long does he need before we can revoke the “still learning” pass?
Casey-
It wasn’t until TCU in Beck’s senior season that he got rid of the “still learning” pass. I know Hall makes a lot of stupid plays, but I’ve also seen some genius plays. You can’t just wish that BYU had a better QB to put in the game. Gaskins is not going to do any better than Hall, otherwise Gaskins wouldn’t have had issues in Spring ball.
I’ve never doubted that Max is the best we have, and naturally I wish we still had Beck, regardless that it will obviously never happen. But my point was that over the last 3 games Max has played about as average as anyone. I think that anyone of our backups could have performed as pathetic as Max did yesterday, and could have possible had better games that Max did against USU and UNM. So while Max is playing average he needs to shut his face and quit doing special Heisman trophy interviews while his performance on the field is severely lacking.
Quinn,
I don’t remember where you said it but you said BYU is still a top 10 program. I just want to go on record saying I completely agree. I think we have one of the best groups of coaches in College Football. I think their priorities are right, I think in the long term it will play out that way. This is a set back, but I think if we all took a step back and looked at the team purely on paper, we wouldn’t be as shocked and upset at the way they are playing. I think we all believed the hype and let ourselves and the team down. The coaches can’t come out and say yeah you know the defense really is a little shaky and Max isn’t living up to his national hype. They need to build them up and make them believe. Let’s keep LES a fortress against UNLV and get back on the wagon. My blood doesn’t change color overnight, we all bleed BYU blue and white. Let’s all get behind the boys, make some noise at home and keep behind the team. We are the twelfth man out there!!!
Quinn:
I have to admit, I haven’t read all of your posts or people’s comments. I really kind of just stumbled on your site. I’m glad to see you doing this site…
I have a question for you: I hope no one takes this poorly, but I feel like there isn’t a lot of passion being displayed by the team, and that’s been the case ever since the Wyoming game. Last night, if you watched TCU, they couldn’t hold still. They were so amped for the game, and I didn’t see anything near that from our players. During the UCLA game, the team, the fans, there was an absolutely electricity in the air. I’ve been going to the games since I was a little kid with a friend (my parent’s never could go), and I’ve experienced that intense eletricity and passion BYU football has played with for a lot of years.
My question to you is, do you see the same thing? If so, how can that be rectified? Is it coaching? Does player leadership need to step up?
It just seems to me when someone’s motivated, they are hard to be stopped.
Also, I agree, Steven. I bleed blue. I attend the University of Utah for school , and I wear my BYU gear proudly. I’m behind our guys all the way. That’s my team out there and they got my support through thick and thin.
Go Cougars!
As Casey’s brother and having watched every game with him including last night (hi Casey) I just want to vouch that he never jumped off the bandwagon. He’s always been in favor of BYU and always been rather pointed about Max Hall not being as impressive as the hype. It was all premature. He has said the same thing from the beginning of the season. So for those of you saying this is all coming out of no where, I’ve been hearing the same thing all season (and I agree with him).
Casey,
Sorry I have not gotten back to you sooner about the head case/fighter comment. Not everyone on the field is a fighter in the face of adversity. There are players I have played with at all levels who cave when the going gets tough. Coach Mendenhall used to preach to us to “take the other teams will away from them.” What I am saying about Max is that he never gives up. He may not make the best choices to overcome adversity, but I never questions that he is trying in the best way he knows how, to get the job done. That is why I have said a few times that I blame Coach Doman and Coach Anae just as much as I do Max. We are young guys who need to learn more every day. They need to help him mature and grow, and I have not seen a lot of growth in the last two years.
BEN…
I AGREE WITH YOU. NOT A LOT OF EMOTION. Quinn has eluded to this earlier in the post game. That is not something that coaches can influence, nor is it something that leadership can influence through words. It all comes back to what Quinn pointed out…HAVE FUN! That emotion comes when you have fun playing the game. Fui is usually full of it and it gets contagious. We need that right now. WE need Dave Nixon to make a big play on D and get a celebration penalty. (See Flor St last year…entire sideline celebration penalty).
I ALSO WANT TO GO ON RECORD IN SAYING THAT WE ARE STILL ONE OF THE TOP TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY. We have weaknesses, sure, who doesn’t. As for the lack of talent adn speed and whatever else…BYU has always lacked that edge and yet has been a successful program. The team this year may actually be more “athletic” than last years team, but I think that last year’s team was more mature up top and spent more time preparing mentally for games. You stop speed with Physical play and preparation. If you know what play they want to run before they run it, you beat them to the point of attack.
It works, trust me, I had to do it my last two years because I had a bum wheel and Quinn thought I galloped like a horse…I preferred to thin of myself as a Bison
Staff or Quinn,
Several people have commented about the ilbs and their need to improve… I know you’re probably reluctant to “”call them out”, but is their play as big an issue as it seems to a lot of us? It seems like there are problems with bad reads or defeating blocks or taking bad angles… Is any of that accurate? Can it be fixed by coaching or experience, or are we stuck with that? The LBs are my favorite guys to watch (the 46 is for shay muirbrook and poppinga), and it’s kinda killing me right now that everyone not numbered 43 or 41 seems either lost or weak or both…
Casey,
I’m sorry, is this your blog or Quinn’s? You say you don’t have a personal vendetta against Max, but you could sure fool everyone reading. I personally know Max as well and went to high school with him, he is a stand up guy and has kept himself pretty level headed. Now I am in no way saying that he didn’t make a ton of crappy plays last night and within the past few games, but cut him some slack. It seemed to me that he just didn’t have his head in the game last night and wasn’t seeing the whole field. So naturally he was looking for some go to guys, which have been Pitta and Collie. Yeah, he shouldn’t have thrown it to them in triple coverage, but I’m sure the fact that they are his “best friends” has nothing to do with it. He wants to win just as much as anyone else, he was probably just over thinking it last night.
I don’t think you are jumping off BYU’s bandwagon, but posting all your negative personal opinions about Max won’t help the situation or give support to the team. He may only be one person, but he is part of the team and they need all the positive energy from BYU fans they can get.
Casey, Not sure why you are all Anti-Max mode. Give the kid some credit, he has lost how many games as a starter? So what if EVERY Mag in the country wants intereviews with him, do you think this is the first time this has happened? I have seen plenty of articles on Jimmy Mc and Ty Detmer (oh, and JUST so you know, those guys are “fighters” as is Max. Maybe they don’t have the absolute best QB skills or size, BUT they have FIRE…..Oh, btw, yes Ty beat Miami, BUT even Ty never had a year where he had less that 3 loses. I wonder what would have been said about Ty after throwing 5 INTs vs USU that one year).
Are you sure Max didn’t steal your girl friend or something? Another surprise, A LOT of really good athletes are cocky, ESPECIALLY to the outside observer. So what, if it is controlled it makes them better players.
Can Hall improve? OF COURSE, and the reason I think he will is because he has the FIRE to get better. Are you really that mad because we aren’t going to win a NC this year? Did you really think we had that good of a chance? WOW, I like Max and the boys, but I am not sure even I have glasses that blue.
As far as our O goes, I think your all missing whats happening. Other team coaches have us figured out, and we simply do not have enough plays in our arsenal to quickly adjust. Max throws to a spot and expects the receiver to be there, opposing D’s know where that spot is now, and it looks like Max is throwing into tripple coverages, he is, but they’re there after the ball is thrown. They watch films too! You stop the outside rush by popping the up back through with the quick opener. What ever happened to the draw play? When your up in a pre snap position, you can’t cut block yourself. We need to be down more often. We were taken to the woodshed, plain and simple. I expect a much better effort next week.
Long week ahead—-
I agree Casey, I think all of us wanted a crack at a NC. I just think the national attention got to the team.
From my view I never saw Max pointing to himself when being interviewed. He was always saying the right team things and came across just how you hoped he would.
Having said that do I think he might have let some of the attention go to his head? I’m sure it did and other teammates probably did some of the same. You could see it in how they played. They weren’t playing relaxed the last few games.
The one thing you have to remember Casey is it is easy to second guess what a player should do when the national media is fawning over them. That attention and pressure makes you do some stupid things sometimes. All things considered I thought Max did fairly well except keeping it from affecting his play on the field. We hope that now he knows better, maybe now he listens more closely in his meetings or to coaches who hopefully will be trying to get him to go through his progressions.
Max Hall is not perfect – BYU has never had a quarterback who was. The one thing I am sure of though is if he goes down BYU suffers more than anyone of us can realize right now. There is no one behind him that can step up and expand our offense. Max goes out and our offense shrinks considerably.
casey casey casey…. relax my blue-goggled fanatic delusional friend. when the name “gaskins” entered your comment, you lost all cred. nothing you said after that was worth reading. but i did anyway and i came to the conclusion that you are waaaaaay too obsessed about a brief encounter with maxy and how he rubbed you the wrong way.
about maxy. i’m glad that the kid has some swagger. i’m glad he believes he’s “all that.” shows he has fire in the belly and will do anything he can to prove that he deserves the hype. for a guy who believes he’s “all world,” maybe thursday’s game will humble him a bit, and he will learn from it and come back STRONGER AND BETTER. he’ll going to be that much more motivated to go out and kick some a**. i like a bit of fire in a kid like that. who wouldn’t want that? and get over your “personal encounter” with him and other byu players. i’m sure he is not as cocky as you think, or as he came across. i like a guy with confidence. and even if he and collie are cocky, don’t you think they have proven themselves on the field enough to have a bit of swagger? get over yourself. you’re a dude on a message board. they’re the ones with blood on their jerseys (along with gucci).
about your talk of a NC this year… LAUGHABLE. first, we never would have made it to the NC this year. no chance in hell. but just for your delusional fairytale world, let’s assume every other BCS team had 2 losses and we went undefeated and miraculously made it to the NC… i’m pretty sure the USU, NM, and TCU games showed that we would have had our butts handed to us by any top10 team, and been 2009’s hawaii. who the heck wants that? i don’t want our program to be embarrassed. lastly, next year has ALWAYS been our NC chance year. better schedule. more experience all around (althought i’m worried about losing most of the o-line). but, as good as we are this year, i expect we’ll even have more weapons next year.
casey caser case… bro. relax. max is a bad a** and a good qb. get over it. go cry to mommy about losing our “only chance at a NC.” and then wake up next september when you finally realize we’re again ranked in the top10 and have a better chance at going undefeated.
ANSWER TO SCOTT’S QUESTION:
The 2007 Meikle position was dissolved after Meikle graduated. Anae wanted to fill that position with another TE. This has been frustrating to watch because that was a key possession position. Also you have Bryce Mauhuika who started as a freshmen and could have success at that position and he is only on ST teams now. There are other players too in our offense who would be able to replace Meikle at that spot (even though I would not like them as much as my buddy Nate!)
As to the question about John. I don’t want to speak for him but I will just give you some facts to think about. After the last preseason game many teams came a calling and Miami would not make a trade. (Cowboys in particular) Obviously it would be frustrating to have a team act like they want you by not trading you and then not speak to you. It is a confusing situation. I think that John is confident that things will sort themselves out after this season and he will get a real opportunity.
I have said this before I met my wife (John’s sister) and I’ll say it until the day I die…JOHN BECK WAS THE BEST QB I EVER PLAYED AGAINST (Yes better than Brady Quinn, Matt Ryan, Leinart, Alex Smith…) FYI…John’s senior year he averaged getting rid of the ball in under 3 seconds. Pretty impressive for a guy who threw to his 2nd, 3rd and 4th reads a lot.
BOB AND THE OFFENSE:
I can only partially agree with Bob on this deal about the offense being too vanilla and easy to figure out. As Coach Mendenhall always says to the team “It is our execution against their execution. Our will against their will.”
In high school we ran about 10 offensive plays, super obvious. But every offensive play is designed to go the distance, if you execute. We won 4 league titles and a CIF champ and were runner up 2x.
Air Force ran the triple option (Navy still runs it) and that is (in my mind, and I believe Coach Mendenhall’s) the easiest offense to defend, IF YOU ARE DISCIPLINED AND OUT EXECUTE THEM. But how successful have Air Force (in the past) and Navy (the last two years) been with that simple simple offense?
It all boils down to the athletes you have to execute it and how they will play within the system. We have the athletes on offense. It comes down to a choice of how bad to they want to play within the system and how relentless they are going to be. How vanilla is UNM’s offense? Run to #21 80% of the time up the middle…yet because they believe in it, they are successful with it.
I didn’t want to read anything yesterday about BYU. But the loss has given me a little perspective. It’s okay to lose! My value does not lie in BYU Football. It’s easy to get swept up in the hype, but I found my guts tearing themselves up when I expected so much each game.
I think Max is a good quarterback, but I saw Max only throwing powerballs. Austin is pretty good at running underneath, but Max didn’t give him that chance, he was always trying to throw it in their hands.
I’m still a BYU fan, I’ll never jump off the bandwagon.
I personally hate hearing about streaks because they will always get broken.
I never thought BYU was better than a few SEC or Big 12 teams.
Maybe we can all get back to just being happy for the privilege of watching these guys play! And I hope the boys start having fun again.
Thanks Quinn for pushing through all the highs and lows of representing BYU.
And to any players who check this sight, don’t listen to all the arm chair quarterbacks. We learn more from our trials than our blessings.
I think it’s hilarious that when the team loses you have a portion of the fan base that acts like the sky is falling. Of course we’re all disappointed by the loss. Of course the team has weaknesses, what team doesn’t? In the end the sun came up and BYU will live to fight another day.
Then you have eternal pessimits in the fanbase. I remember sitting in the stands the year Ty won the heisman and we had people around saying we needed a “real quarterback”.
bagotricks… Exactly! You said what I was thinking. Let’s not turn into the Yewtah fans and call for Max’s head and Bronco to get fired. When things are going great, no one has a problem with the way things are (you always have those who can never be satisfied) and when a little adversity strikes, everyone has an opinion.
Our team lost but it is not the end of the world. You win 16 you lose 1. I can live with that and there is always next year. Bronco and his team inspire me to set my own goals and work toweards them even though I lose sometimes too. 12-1 season isn’t that bad. Go Cougars!
Great perspectives. Remember at the end of the season there will only be 2-4 undefeated teams, and there will only be a handful of 1 loss teams also. BYU IS STILL ONE OF THE TOP TEAMS IN THE COUNTRY. THE GOALS, THE FOUNDATION OF THE PROGRAM, ARE ALL STILL INTACT.
Being MWC Champs is a big deal, especially this year, and we can still do that. This has been, and will continue to be, a successful season.
GO COUGS!
Staff,
I appreciated your comments. I’m sure that the KISS attitude is best. Quick openers and draw plays are simple plays, trap plays are harder to execute, but we sure could’ve used a couple Thursday night.
I had an idea we were in trouble when I read that the TCU coaches had spent a lot of time looking at the Tulsa game from last year. Twice we get beat by teams showing up with something we havent seen on films.
Short of the brain labotomy to change Max’s personality for Casey, I agree with much said here, I simply believe Robert Anae is too slow making corrections, (play calling) that outside rush was there all night. 7 sacks a bunch of hurries,— faster corrections, a few more different (simple) plays are all that’s needed.
Max is the best QB in the conference, I have thought he’d be the best since I first saw him running Summer drills. And we have him for another year.
On D, we play with who we have. We can’t go out a make a trade with Nebraska. We are a pretty average Defense with only a few stars. 5 games left!
Bob
Jerold Tanner,
Thank you for your post.Well said!
It’s kind of ironic that a lot of the points of criticism that have been aimed at Max are actually attributes that I like about him. He can be a bit stubborn and overconfident in games but it’s competitive spirit that players feed off on. I don’t have a huge problem with Max favoring Collie and Pitta. A good QB will always try to find ways to get the ball to his playmakers when the game is in doubt. Out of all the negatives Max had, he did make some nice gutsy plays such as the long pass to Collie from his own endzone and the other long completion on 4th and long. When it was 4th and 20 in the Utah game, Max threw a prayer to Collie. What if Collie dropped that? Other than losing the game, fans would’ve been all over his case for forcing the ball to receiver who was too far downfield. For better or worse, Hall feels that he has found his Jerry Rice in Austin Collie and his Brent Jones in Dennis Pitta (Yes I’m a Niner fan). In my opinion, Hall’s problem last Thursday was that he went to the well way too much when he should’ve been taking the opportunity to get others involved in the offense. Reed unfortunately, is not all the way back from his injury. I think we’ll see the offense open up a bit once he gets healthy which I hope happens next week. I’m hoping that Jacobsen will be physically ready after his mission to play next year. To see him on the one side of the field with Collie on the other, our offense will be that much better but that’s next year.
As for this year, I’ll paraphrase a famous politician running for President. The fundamentals of our offense are strong. We still have a productive and potent offense with the current playbook. Having said that, there adjustments I’d like to see Anae make like maybe inserting a few screen plays to keep a defense like TCU’s more honest. I’d also like to see more bootleg plays involving Max using his feet. I realize the need to keep our QB healthy but a mobile Max is just one more thing a defense has to worry about. In any case, I have confidence that the boys will bounce back and be back to their winning ways again.
When Thursday’s game was clearly out of hand for BYU, I remember one of the commentators say something like ‘this team is about more than football’… and yeah, I hurt like a mother and the game was like a bad dream… But hey it’s just one game, the team didn’t make excuses and you can bet your house they will figure things out an get better. I’m a Cougar fan even when they lose, because I believe the program’s success is not only measured in W’s and L’s . GO COUGARS!!!!
First off, Quinn, let me just say I missed you out there. Love this site, Gooch!! My takes after taking my family of 8 to Amon Carter this weekend.
1. Great place to take a family. I can put up with the OV-ER-RAT-ED chants from the TCU student section (hate to say it, but they were right…) Great tailgate by the BYU Alumni, we had 1/2 of the North side filled out in Cougar Blue. Finally, it’s nice not having to explain to my 9 year old the “F-you, BYU” chants that I’ve heard at other venues.
2. Offense: Most have focused on the inability of the passing game, but for most of the game they were playing 2 deep. I was watching all 3 or 4 receivers have a player guarding them at the line, then 2 safeties “over the top”, each taking 1/2 the field. Hard for Pitta, Reed, Collie or others to get open when its 3 vs. 5 in the secondary.
This reinforces the earlier point about where Meikle’s position disappeared to, as well as how we missed having Manase. I would have thought their scheme would have left Unga uncovered out of the backfield, but their linebackers were quick enough to take away that option as well. They were able to stop the run and get a good pass rush with the remaining 5 players (5 guarding deep, one taking away Unga out of the backfield, 5 on the rush/run) so our offense just had no where to go. Our lone touchdown drive was like pulling teeth getting those yards.
They covered the pass and dared us to run (made us a one-dimensional running team). Our running game couldn’t answer.
3. Defense. TCU has better athletes. They have had better athletes for the past 3 years. But what made the difference between the past 2 year successes and this year? I think this is what Bronco refers to as “position mastery” and “assignment sound.” We had guys who made not have been the fastest, but they knew where their help was, could make open field tackles and had that IQ that was mentioned earlier. For example, Brandon Howard was just so alone out there on the corner, the out pattern on every 3rd down was wide open each time. In the past, the corner may have been able to cover that, knowing that he had some help with a safety if the receiver turned it up field. Missed Justin Robinson, Gooch, Kehl, Poppinga, etc., etc., who knew their positions, their abilities and used team defense to leverage against faster, more athletic opponents.
It will hurt watching this over again on Versus (had it on DVR), but what else is a Cougar fan going to do during the week but break down film???
Here’s to a bounce back against UNLV, winning out until Utah and facing an undefeated Utah team. I would see that as a win/win situation. We beat Utah, and we all know that’s a win. We lose to an undefeated Utah, they bust the BCS and at least bring home some $$$ for the conference and get that MWC respect out there. Still hurts, but I’m more of a stadium half blue kind of guy…
What I like about our coaching staff is how they learn from experiences like this. Look what we did against UCLA this year as a result of them taking a hard look at what we did wrong the last two times. Look at how well we recovered from the loss to Tulsa last year.
I’m really glad this was a Thursday game and they’ve got a couple of extra days to analyze what went wrong. I’m looking for a strong turnaround next week.
I have no doubt the frUtecake coaches will dissect this game and try to beat us the same way. If we learn from this, we’ll be ready to stuff it right back at ‘em.
Lastly, I agree that Casey, while obviously a passionate Cougar fan — and don’t we love him for that — is taking up too much space here. Make your point and then move on. Leave the endless debates to the boards!
Did TCU look like the fastest team in the history of football, or was that just me ? They were faster than Halls passes for sure, great technique, great recovery speed, great heart, just great everything that our secondary doesn’t have. I was in shock and actually a little bit of awe.
TCU has always been know for their speed and athleticism even when we beat them the last 2 times. But it’s not like our guys are bunch of slow pokes either. When you have a team flying around the field making plays left and right, they’re gonna look faster and better than they really are. Had BYU had a good game and made the plays we know they can do then I think TCU’s speed would not have been as much of an issue as people now make it out to be. I reminds me of the movie, “Cinderella Man” when Paul Giamati tells Russell Crowe’s character to not worry about his opponent’s speed and just keep hitting him hard and then he goes on to say, “I have a feeling if you keep hitting him, he’s not gonna be as fast anymore” I’m paraphrasing of course. But you get my point. BYU was just not making the hits they needed (ie: making plays) to neutralize their opponent and as a result TCU looked like a team of Usain Bolt clones.
Love the Cinderella Man quote. Funny thing is that the physical phenom that started this blog used to say that every TCU week. He would get so fed up with the coach’s talk about how fast TCU is and would. Just hit him, cause they’re not tough and that will slow them down. We did not hit them Thursday.
THIS IS OFFICIALLY MY LAST POST ON THIS GAME. ONWARD AND UPWARD.
Not to drag this post-game analysis out further, but a couple of questions.
1- Whenever we play against QBs who can scramble (Locker, Dalton), it seems that there’s always a lot of green downfield from the line of scrimmage because all but the D-line drop into coverage, and that scramblers easily exploit that open space to pick up a first down. Why allow this space? I’m frustrated that we don’t have a QB spy floating around out there when it’s clear that the offense wants to run the QB.
2- The lack of checking down on the receivers by Max has been killing me for weeks, and in that department I think he’s regressed since last year. I understand his reluctance to trust some of the younger receivers like Chambers, Kozlowski or Ashworth, but where in the world is Mahuika? Last year, he was dependable for a couple of catches a game, but now he’s relegated to special teams. Anyone know what gives?
For heaven’s sake, Max, instead of chilling with your best friend and your brother in law, spend some time learning the names and numbers of your other receivers!
On slightly related note, NM slapped SDSU 70-7?!?! It’d be nice to have a beatdown game like that between now and the Utah game to work out some of our offensive kinks and hopefully get Max comfortable with his receiving options again.
Staff,
Thanks for Beck update. I am huge fan of his! Tell him to keep his head up and that he still has tons of believers rooting for him!
Did I just read some dude named Casey saying above that Max is a “head case”? That literally had me laughing out loud. Luckily he followed it up by explaining that he has no rational basis for this opinion only that Max “rubbed him the wrong way” from the start.
If there’s one thing Max Hall isn’t, it’s a “head case”. Hall is far cooler under pressure than Beck was for most of his career. I love JB – but the dude was a classic 4th quarter disappearing act. The dude routinely broke down under pressure until the second half of his senior season.
Hall had a very bad game last week. And very good QBs have bad games. And his tendency to zone in on AC and Pitta has become increasingly disturbing. But he’s not even remotely a head case.
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