UNLV Post Game Wrap-up
We all left the stadium nodding in agreement that our team, while good, is going to have to fight tooth and nail the remainder of the season. A lot of credit needs to be given to these up-and-coming UNLV Rebels. They have been tested and proven and their team is becoming one that could earn some bowl games appearances.
In comparing last weeks loss and this weeks win their are a few things that stick out in my mind.
BYU made plays early, which gave the Cougars the emotional edge throughout the game. We also involved more people and forced the UNLV defense to play an “honest” game. On the defensive side of the ball we made crucial plays in order to escape with a win. I say “escape” because for some reason we tried as hard as we could to give UNLV every opportunity to win the game.
Offense
The offense was at times very efficient. What I didn’t like was the fact that we didn’t throw the haymaker left hook to knock the head off the Running Rebels. Instead we let them hang around and believe they could beat us. In all, the statistical data was fairly even. UNLV even out passed us.
UNLV Rushing – 31 attempts for 112 yards
BYU Rushing – 34 attempts for 209 yards
UNLV Passing – 351
BYU Passing – 245
UNLV Total Yardage – 75 plays 463 yards
BYU Total Yardage – 66 plays 454 yards
That’s enough statistical crap. Lets get to how each position group played.
Offensive line
Looking at the statistics you can see that our line performed very well. They exploded off the line and provided our backs with gaping holes to run through. The big nasties did a great job of sealing off the linebackers and getting to the second level of the defense. This allowed our running backs gains of 6-10 yards instead of three yards and a cloud of dust. They also gave Max ample time in the pocket and when the receivers were covered, Max was able to find running lanes for positive yardage.
This was the first game I noticed how good Matt Reynolds really is. He has great feet and body position and when he gets in the open field against line backers and defensive backs he munches them up like Pac-man. He also continues to protect Max’s blind side in passing situations, which means he is matched up against the defense’s best pass rusher. Well done middle Reynolds, well done.
As a side note – This game was the first time where physically our offensive line’s bellies were matched in diameter and volume. There were some seriously voluptuous figures on the field yesterday.
Running Backs
I thought Harvey would have a big day and he did. Coach Anae came into this game wanting to establish a running game and he made a statement. Harvey had 19 rushes for 84 yards and Fu-Manchu had a great day with 72 yards on 9 carries. I hope this is a turning point for the BYU offense to consistantly churn out great performances from these two Tongans.
It was especially satisfying to see Fui in good form. He looks like he has regained his speed from 2006 and is finally back to full strength. Our backs are better than the statistics show. Our running backs haven’t been given the chances they need to make a defense shutter in fear. Today they did and CSU didn’t like what they saw.
I would also like to see these two get more involved in the passing game. Fui had a TD catch and Harvey had a couple of catches out of the backfield, but we need them to turn into the players Manase and Curtis were. If we can establish this part of our offense as well as the down field passing scheme, it will add a much needed dimension that can alleviate some of the pressure on Max.
Receivers (Tight Ends included)
Austin continues to prove that he is the go-to-guy for our offense. He ended his day with 7 receptions and 113 yards. He also provided a needed boost on special teams; nearly returning UNLV’s initial kick-off for a TD.
In the first couple of possessions Max used Dennis Pitta and Andrew George, but as the game wore on he threw less and less their way. Mike Reed had a decent day, but he isn’t playing as well as he did in the first 4 games of this season. His routes look sloppy and he isn’t making sharp cuts to create space so he can catch the ball.
I also had to do a double take when I saw Mr. Chambers catch his first BYU touchdown. I thought it was Mike for a second. Let’s hope it’s the first of many to come.
Quarterback
Max was 24-31 with zero interceptions. He came close to being picked a couple of times, but UNLV couldn’t come up with the ball. By the way – i-backs play action with Austin on a deep route doesn’t work anymore. Let’s retire that play for a few weeks.
Max showed improvement in the way he got rid of the ball quickly and threw the ball on time to his receivers. He also did a good job of tucking the ball and running when nothing was open. I even think I saw a flash of an athleticism from Max today. Although he did get out run by a linemen on that end around to Collie.
It was good to see Max take what the defense gave him. Coach Anae also concentrated on the running game, which took a little pressure off of Max’s shoulders. He threw accurate balls and didn’t throw interceptions. In a game where BYU rushed for over 200 yards we couldn’t have asked for a better quarterback performance.
Defense
Teams have found our soft spots and they are now working those spots to their benefit. Gone are the days of power football with a hat on a hat. From Saturday on the Cougars will be playing against four and five receiver formations. Our coverages and our defensive pressure needs to improve if we are going to make stops on third down.
I am honestly looking for positive things to say. Our defense just didn’t make enough plays to separate themselves as the better team. Teams know who they need to attack and are executing plays that match up their offensive speed against our smarts and the speed has been making more plays.
I also questioned some of the defensive calls. I didn’t want to, but I just missed the point of bringing certain blitzes in third and short situations. It gave UNLV the chance to get the ball off quick with our DB’s aligned too deep.
Defensive Line
This group did the job, holding the Rebel Tank to 33 yards. Despite being somewhat banged up they preformed well. It was particularly satisfying to hear a few other names over the load speaker as Matt Putnam and Mosesa Foketi made some good plays. Since Jan’s break-out season teams have taken notice and they have devoted more people to making sure that Jan does not single handedly control the line of scrimmage.
We needed our DE’s to play the run well and they did. For the most part they kept the quarterback contained and they stayed in their rush lanes.
Where could this group improve? They need to find ways to win their one on one match-ups when our defensive backs are in man coverage. Our Corners and safeties need the D-linemen to get pressure on the quarterback and disrupt the quarterbacks timing. We didn’t get enough consistent pressure to say that these big fellas dominated. Let’s just say the played the run well…. and stop there.
It was a solid performance that will have to improve if we are going to limit offenses passing efficiency and yardage.
Linebackers
Shawn Doman and Colby Clawson played well. Nixon needs to heal-up so he can again put pressure on the quarterback. That is what we are missing this year. Our defense is missing a middle backer that rushes the quarterback like a bat out of hell. Matt Bauman is a solid defender, but he hasn’t controlled the middle like our defense needs.
I wouldn’t say that this group shined, but they kept the ball in front of them and fought throughout the game.
Where this group needs to improve is in their coverage of the third receiver to the strong side and the second receiver to the weak side. UNLV used this match-up to move the ball down the middle of the field. Also in short yardage situations they need to expand their zones, pushing outward to cover the receiver who is “banging” away from them. This is a tough concept, but if we are going to stop teams in third down situations we will need to be better.
Defensive Backs
First and foremost I would like to comment on Andrew Rich’s toughness. He knocked out a UNLV’s receiver and himself, stumbled off the field. On his way to the sideline he found his wits and came back in when his team needed him. He’s going to be a good player.
I also thought Brandon Bradley played well. He is still a situation corner, but after his performance it is going to be hard to keep him off the field.
We installed a man coverage scheme this week. It is a good start. Our corners and safeties need to get used to playing more man to man. I think as we use this coverage more our timing and understanding will get better and we will see more and more balls being knocked down.
There were a few things that concerned me.
- The amount of times our coverage broke down late and gave up long passes. Our DB’s didn’t plaster to the receivers running through their zones and they couldn’t close out the space while the ball was in the air. This is in part due to their position behind the receiver, so lets work on getting on the receivers hip so we won’t have to close out as much space. ah.
- When our corners and safeties get a chance to make a play. MAKE IT! Don’t squander your opportunities for interceptions or big hits. They don’t come to often.
- With David Tafuna getting hurt and Rich knocking himself out on receivers it leaves more responsibility on Kellen Fowler and Co. It is time to see who is going to step up and take charge when the chips are down. Kellen has done an adequate job, but with more teams testing our secondary, we need players that are going to make plays -alla Brandon Bradely.
- We need more turnovers. Fumbles, interceptions etc. We need them big time bad.
We continued to show sign of struggling with speed. Teams are spreading us out and forcing our perimeter players to make plays one on one. Our edge players need to be better at beating a block and making a tackle. Tafuna did a good job early, but as the game got closer their experienced receivers started getting the best of our edge defenders. STOP GETTING CUT. You will never make a play on the ground. There isn’t away to teach speed, but BYU defenders can speed themselves up with early recognition of formations. Making quick and decisive decisions, playing with crazy effort and most of all preparation. Our defense needs to get in with the Coaches watch film, especially paying attention to the small details.
Special Teams
It would have been a prefect special teams preformance, but Sorenson kicked the ball out of bounds twice. This put the UNLV offense in great position to drive the ball down the field and score points. We can’t expect to kick the ball out of bounds each week and not continue to get burned. Let’s forget about deep left and just let Sorenson kick the crap out of the ball.
It was awesome to see Bryan Karyia hurling himself at the the personal punting shield. That job isn’t for the faint of heart. It was an exciting play and set us up with great field position. Bryan also came down the field on the kick-off cover team and made a huge hit. Mark my words this kid is going to make a lot of plays as a Cougar.
Austin and O’neal also did a great job returning kick-offs. Austin had one huge return and was one step away from a couple of others. Chambers showed some athleticism, jumping over a defender. But he got stuck by the next defender – so it was bitter sweet.
A few good things to remember:
- Our team is developing the identity of a team that wins the close games. A few years ago this wasn’t the case. We have turned the corner and no longer miss opportunities when the game is on the line. Block a field goal, intercept a ball, get a sack or drive the ball down the field and punch in the go ahead TD and two point coversion. Our Cougars have turned into a team that can preform under pressure. This “cool” will be needed because the rest of the season is going to be close.
- The team has changed their practice habits and are working with a more focused determination. This means that BYU will be better prepared for the tough road games coming up.
- Winning is never easy especailly when one side of the ball plays mediocre. Improvements can be made and confidence can be built, but making enough plays to win games isn’t easy.
- I hope the Cougars rung the victory bell a few extra times, took a deep breath. Monday and Tuesday is going to be important as we prepare for a CSU team that needs to win.
I also saw a little more fire this week. What did you think Quinn? The celebration after Fui’s TD and there was one play that maybe got missed. Frank the Tank bobbled a pass on the sideline and dropped it. Right after that Jan was in his face presumably letting him know how lucky he was he hadn’t caught it and then been drilled into row 4. It was good to see!
This was a bitter sweet victory as our defense was horrifying. It was nice to see some offensive adjustments by the coaches and some variations on the play calling. However, the defense really needs an overhaul as well. At this point I think that personnel is the only thing that we can change.
Quinn, I know that you are friends with these guys but the safeties were absolutely horrible and there needs to be a change. It is time for Rich, Pendleton and Te’o to see the field. Yes they will make some mistakes because they are young. But they need to see the field now because the current starters cannot get the job done. As you mentioned, Bradley is another guy who has proven to be a play maker and he needs to start and play every snap. Johnson is solid and I think their needs to be a place for him, but Bradley is simply better. He makes plays and that is what BYU needs. We need athleticism and playmakers on this defense. I don’t know if there are changes that can be made in the LB corps. Hopefully Hooks will be able to return soon because the ILBs are a huge issue right now.
This honestly didn’t feel like a win after the game because I came in hoping that TCU was an anomaly and left realizing that BYU may have a fatal flaw in the defense. Unless changes are made, BYU will struggle more this season and maybe next season if we don’t at least get the youngsters some reps.
What can we expect to see from opposing O’s the rest of the season? I ask because I’m not sure we’ll face a QB and set of receivers like UNLV until Utah.
I haven’t seen too of CSU’s offense, but what little I’ve seen seems centered around the run with an average passing game. Their starting QB has a 9-7 TD/Int ratio and I understand that he’s been benched at least once during a game so there may be some issues there (granted, it was against TCU, so I’m not sure that indicates much). I’ve not seen SDSU at all — on paper they’re terrible, but they put up some points against CSU yesterday. Even though both are ho hum teams, I’m worried that any semblence of an accurate passing attack will make an opposing QB look like a Heisman contender.
AFA is always a challenge, but at least we can be 99.999% sure that we won’t see a passing attack unless they completely revamp their offense for our game.
My sense is that the secondary won’t face UNLV-type of pressure again until the end of the season. Hopefully, that will give them some time to make adjustments and gain more experience and confidence. The D as a whole needs to get back to creating turnovers and putting the other team in bad field position. I think that’s been the key way that we masked secondary deficiencies in the first half of the season, and we if we can get back to that, we’ll be able to compensate for our weaknesses.
What do you know about the transition of coach Hill to D-coordinator?
From what I’ve read, Hill has the title, but Bronco is still making some of the calls. Could the fact the defense has two leaders right now be part of the problem?
Gooch….
So will the offense have to score on 80%+ of its posessions from now on (w/exception of SDSU) in order to win?
This feels like 2001 all over again.
Where are the playmakers in the defense? I know you love your guy Scottie, but a playmaker he is not. Putnam and Bradley should be in on every snap they can.
Methinks we will see a spread formation vs. every team we face from now on. In your experience, can we at least slow it down? I know already there is no chance we will stop it. But slowing it down, that may be enough to keep us in games.
I have never played Football. I love the game from a fans perspective. Quinn, you do a great job explaning the details of the game from a players point of view.
I like the positive input and the straight talk on what could be improved upon. The Cougs are a good team, they have won 7 games.
The only game left on the schedule that concerns me is Utah. Having said that, if the Cougs can play like they did in the first three games, we win.
In those three games the opposing team had to carry their players off the field and the D created turn overs.
WHAT HAPPEN TO THAT TEAM?
G,
I would like to hear what Quinn has to say about this too because Coach Hill was his position coach in 07, but here is my take on teh transition.
When Coach Hill came he brought the 3-4 defense with him. He has spent the bulk of his career with the 3-4. Coach Mendenhall ran the defense, but a lot of the input came from Coach Hill.
They work hand in hand, and both are the two smartest coaches I have had. If you stand by them on the sideline during a game and listen to them talk to players, they know what play is coming every time.
This year Coach Hill is the Defensive Co. No Doubt, Coach Mendenhall will give his input and colaborate with Coach Hill, that is to our advantage. As for the play calling, it was about 50/50 last year on who called the play, this year I would bet it is pretty similar, the one thing Coach Mendenhall wanted to retain was signaling the plays in.
, becuase I knew they had the other off
Jep,
If you read any or my post I think you would have learned that I agree with the fact that more guys need to make plays. Bradley did a good job on Saturday, but their are eleven guys on the field. Putnam has done a good job all year and will continue to get more snaps, but don’t think for a minute that Nixon and Jorgensen are done for the year. We are getting everyone’s best game and our team is developing the character necessary to withstand adversity and find a way to win. The wins may be ugly and some fans will leap overboard, but our defense is young. That sets us up for good future years.
Rich played well and now that Tafuna is hurt Pendelton is going to be forced to mature quickly.
The quick and dirty is these young guys are untested, so pick your poison.
Will we have to score on 80% of the offensive possessions…..well that would be nice. We have a lot of holes on defense and I agree with the fact that we will be seeing the spread offense from a lot of teams. The good thing is CSU doesn’t have the personal to pull off the spread, AF sticks to their option and shouldn’t have to many spread variations. SDSU will run some spread formations, but we will hopefully pull a win off there.
The big question in my mind is if we can improve enough to stop the Utes?
I think we are forgetting that this is the defense we thought we were going to get this year. We don’t need to throw these guys under the bus because the overperformed for a few games and then are back to about where we expected coming into the year. We lost almost all of our playmakers last year. How do you replace a guy like Kehl, or Markel, or Quinn, or Ben Criddle. These guys were seniors at the top of their game. That with the young break out guys like Jan. Now we have guys that haven’t played before and we always knew the offense was going to have to win games for us. The future of the D is very bright, but today, this year, they are good enough to win games and that’s all that matters right now!
Very well stated Steven. Do you think they will improve enough to Beat Utah?
Jep,
I agree with everything in your comment exepc that Scott Johnson is not a playmaker. After watching a ton of games on Sat I noticed so many top 10 defenses come up on the short pop pass and miss the tackle, allowing the reciever to get 5 more yards. Scott doesn’t allow that, just like Criddle, and it has forced teams to try other things.
Scott has forced a turnover or two this year, so he is making more plays than most guys.
Do we need more yes!
The game I am least concerned about in the remainder of the season is AFA. Ever since Coach Mendenhall has been around we have dominated the Cadets on Defense and they are not big enough to stop our offense. Coach Mendenhall is a whole other monster that week in practice and he knows the AFA offense inside and out. They will not move the ball.
SDSU is always scary because you never know what team you are going to get. For a team that can’t win year in and year out, they have the most NFL players of any MWC team. They had 2 guys drafted this year (that I know of for a fact). The key is to put them away early, and then they will give up on eachother. The longer you let them hang around, the better they get.
Question for Staff or Gooch.
Ok, the LBs cover the flats with the CBs aligned 10 yards + off the LOS. Even on 3rd down and short this seems to be the norm. Why are the CBs not coming up when it is 3rd and short? Seems to me that teams are taking advantage of that on 3rd down. I understand they don’t want to get beat over the top, but you can’t play scared the entire time.
So why aren’t the CBs coming up when it is third and short to prevent the quick pass for the first down?
Forgot to mention, Bronco eluded to this after the TCU game, but I didn’t see a whole lot of adjustment against UNLV and they seemed to have no problem converting the short 3rd downs.
Gooch, also, Bronco made mention that he had some calls that he wished he had back, that he was over aggressive. I’m thinking it was blitzing on some of those 3rd and shorts.
I am going to let Quinn comment on the CBs since that is his area of expertise, but I will tell you this Zak, for the most part we give up the flats in our defense, That is usually a long throw for the QB to make, so we rally to it. There are instances where EITHER a CB, S, or LB will cover the flats, if we think that is where they really want to attack. But it is no secret to offenses that we let them have the flat.
Staff,
There’s been a lot of talk about our best athlete, Austin Collie, being able to play QB.
My response to that has been, why not give him a chance at playing db? In the 60’s and 70’s, many college players went both ways. Would Collie be an upgrade to any current dbs’ and is it possible for a player like Austin, to improve our defense by playing both sides of the field?
I thought it was a great game, I love shoot outs. We buy tickets to be entertained. If my wife had been there we would have had to carry her out, she would have passed out on the last second interception. She loved her BYU football.
Didn’t see the quick opener like I wanted, but watching Fui carry and catching the ball was great.
In the TCU game our D linmen were being pushed out of the play allowing the QB to scramble for the first down, didn’t see a lot of that Saturday.
The coaches allowing Max to scramble was great, I know it’s an injury risk, but why should the QB’s be exempt?
Fun Game!!
PJD,
I don’t know how to put this…Austin may be the most talented player by position, but I would not say the best “athlete” on the team. He can be a great weapon in an expanded role on offense and special teams, but it takes a different kind of player to roam the secondary.
There is no player in our secondary I would replace with Austin.
From what I saw and what I am reading I think we can all agree that the old Fui was back on Saturday and he came with the emotion that we all crave out of him.
There are too many players who were full of energy last year, that seem to be going through the motions this year.
Welcome back FUI…FINISH STRONG!
One more thing, on the UNLV second touch down, a QB sneak, nobody was lined up on the QB.s right side. He simply dove into the hole. Was a backer supposed to fill that hole? Who missed that assignment?
Fun play of the week, My second favorite team Air Force; QB pitched the ball to the deep RB who run towards the line and shotput the ball over the pile to a wide open T.E..
Who will face Kruger most of the time in the Utah game?
“I think we are forgetting that this is the defense we thought we were going to get this year. We don’t need to throw these guys under the bus because the overperformed for a few games and then are back to about where we expected coming into the year.”
Steven,
I agree that the defense is playing at about the level I expected them to at the beginning of the year. However, we are more than halfway through the season, and they should no longer be playing at that level. I would like to see some improvement. Isn’t that what the Quest for Perfection is all about?
Some of the suggestions for personnel changes and who should be playing every play sound painfully like the arguments that come up every time a QB is struggling (which thankfully we haven’t seen for a while). There is a reason the guys that are playing are playing and the guys that are on the bench are on the bench. It’s silly to be second guessing our experienced and very intelligent defensive staff. Put a more athletically talented but less experienced player on the field and you’re likely to see more mistakes leading to big plays by the opposition.
There were some tradeoffs made on Saturday to stop the Frank the Tank/QB scrambling game that made our pass coverage look extra bad. But our guys got it done if only by the seat of their pants. And let’s give ‘em some credit — UNLV played a stellar game!
Our next two opponents should be weaker on “O”. UNLV has averaged nearly 28 ppg this season, CSU 22 (even with the 38 pts scored this weekend against a bad SDSU defense) and SDSU 19, so we really should have an easier time the next two weeks (providing our O plays well against CSU on the road).
If we can improve our D over the next two weeks, we should be much improved for AF and the FrUtecakes. All these guys have got to do is hold opponents to less points than our (hopefully rejuvenated) offense scores. But thank goodness we’re not playing AF/SNOT first!!
Quinn,
I know you are a straight shooter and you pretty much backed Bauman as being a talented ILB. But after watching him this past game (and in many others in my opinion) he is a major drop-of from prior years. And I do mean major. I asked the same queston of Markell, but I know ILB’s probably stick together.
Can you think of a time when Bauman has really lit someone up are made a big play. Well maybe he has, but I just don’t see him as a consistent play maker like we have had previously.
Quinn,
Do you think that any of the let down lately on D has to do with guys playing hurt and not practicing during the week? Just seems like so often we are just one step away from making that big play.
I thought our defense lost outside contain several times in the UNLV game, getting caught to shallow and inside. It is not always an exciting job but the d-end or outside linebacker has to keep contain and force the play back inside.
It’s plain after watching the UNLV game that the Brethren’s 10-year plan for the BYU Football team is falling into place:
1. Installing a loyal Ute with no ties (other than religion) to BYU as president. – Check
2. Bringing in failed coach as AD. – Check
3. Closing down Ricks intercollegiate sports programs, once the Cougar’s primary talent pipeline, and presaging the Brethren’s intent for BYU.– Check
4. Hire a football coach who confers an air of Lavell-like calm, but who is ultimately half as competent. – Check
5. Begin to win ‘the right way’ before beginning to lose the right way. – We’re in the early stages of this phase now.
6. Several 6-6 seasons.
7. The closing of all intercollegiate sports at BYU, as at Ricks, ‘So as to better concentrate on our core mission of educating Mormon youth.’
8. Kim Clark, presently at Ricks, named to the Seventy and installed as BYU’s new president.
9. Mormon athletes will be actively recruited by programs nationwide, who will learn how to deal with the missionary years. More missionary work will be done on sports teams nationwide than ever before.
10. Utah State will emerge as a WAC powerhouse in football!
HAHA! The sky is falling, the sky is falling! I really hope that post wasn’t supposed to be serious…
Paul Jones is an interesting character. I appreciate his view -and he is a smart guy- but football isn’t like marketing, Paul.
And when was the last time you spent time around either Lavell or Bronco? My bet is you’ve never been in their presence, unless you were asking for an autograph. So chill with the incompitent talk.
My personal feelings: President Samuelson is doing good. He is a little conservative, but I like his support of BYU athletics. I’ve had the opportunity to sit down at the table with Pres. Samuelson and he is one of the biggest BYU supporters ever. He genuinely cares. Tom Holmoe has done a great job. How many sports are now winning conference championships?
I don’t think I need to defend Coach Mendenhall, his record speaks for itself.
This is some funny stuff.
It’s pretty normal for fans to start calling for this player or that player to be benched. It happens EVERY year. I heard the same talk while at the TCU game, about benching HALL!
Bauman v UNLV: 13 tackles (4 unassisted). Guess who leads the team right now in tackles? Yep – Bauman, with 68 (he also leads with 31 unassisted). Guess who is 2nd on the team in TFL? Yep – Bauman, with 8. To say he’s not making plays is to say you’re not watching games.
Scott Johnson is regularly a leading tackler, and is consistently hitting people (and hitting them hard). He’s one of the top performers on the team – one of the few that is making plays. (Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing him move to S in Tafuna’s absence & seeing more of Bradley). In fact, Johnson is SECOND on the team in tackles…PLAYING PRIMARILY AS A CB!!!!
Let’s be honest here – Omar Clayton is the best QB we’ve faced this year to date, and will probably end up as the best QB we face all year. Plenty of teams have/will struggle to contain UNLV’s passing game.
My biggest concern from the game:
-BYU’s inability to make plays & create pressure on the blitz. UNLV’s decidedly average O-line didn’t allow us to create many negative-yardage plays to help out the D.
Did anyone see the block Max through on the UNLV safety on Fui’s big run? That was awsome!
Hi Quinn:
I’ve never met Bronco.
But I have met Lavell, ironically enough in a marketing setting. He, John Robinson and Don Nehlen were all involved in an event that I worked on. They were there representing the American Football Coaches Association, of which Lavell was a longtime board member. Away from the field he was nothing like the dour-faced guy on the sidelines.
It would be interesting to argue the question of who had the tougher challenge, Lavell, who along with his assistants had to figure out a way win with the challenges that BYU presents; or Bronco, who must meet the heightened expectations Lavell set, but who has the script in front of him.
But you’ve ignored the larger question, which is: why do intercollegiate sports exist on BYU’s campus? What’s their reason for existing?
I’m paraphrasing, but in the opening montage on the KSL Coaches Show Bronco says that football is a merely a vehicle to build young men, which seems blatantly undemocratic and not exactly cost effective. Let’s see, if the team has 80 players and a budget of $20 million, that’s $250,000 each player. Tell me Quinn, did you find your football-playing peers $250,000 more honorable, moral, upright, righteous, character-filled, and worthy than your non-football playing peers at BYU?
Don’t we send young people from the Church on missions in part to change their lives for the better?
(And, hey, I’ve got three sons and I’d like them to be the most virtuous they could possibly be. How do I sign them up? Oh, they have to be football players. But I thought BYU Football was about developing young men.)
Let me give you three analogies that I grant you are imperfect (as all analogies are), but I still think illustrate my point.
Until 50 years ago the Church owned a bank. They started the bank years before because the Church and its members needed the services of a bank. As more banks were founded or came to Utah it became clear that the Church no longer needed a bank and so they sold Zions to the Simmons family.
Likewise, the Church used to own a number of hospitals in the state. There was a time when it was common for many different denominations to own and run hospitals. Now it’s not. At any rate, 25 years ago, give or take, the Church turned its hospitals over to a newly-founded nonprofit foundation called IHC.
BYU-Idaho and BYU-Hawaii both had intercollegiate sports at one time and now do not. Why, because the Church deemed intercollegiate sports to be counter-productive for those schools and students. I dare say that if tomorrow the Church started ‘BYU-Monterrey’ in Mexico for the many Latin Saints that there would not be whatever the Mexican equivalent of intercollegiate sports on that campus, either.
I understand what the players and coaches get out of BYU Football. I understand what American fans get out of it. My question is: what is it that the sponsoring organization gets out of BYU Football?
Paul what are you trying to get at? If you are so opposed to BYU football, don’t spend your time on the site.
To answer what I think you are asking…There have been a number of players baptized in the last few years…I think that alone is reason enough for the brethren to have sports at BYU.
When your sons go on missions, if they go to the states have them wear BYU ties and see where it gets them…BYU football is the flagship for the church in a lot of regions…just a note from personal experience.
PS…Ricks had to give up football when it became BYU Idaho because …funny as it may sound… BYU can’t have two football teams…imagine that.
PaulJones–
Just a point of order, BYU-Hawaii has thriving intercollegiate athletics program that used to compete in the NAIA, but for the past several years has competed successfully in NCAA Div. II. Apparently, the Church only deemed intercollegiate athletics counterproductive to the students in Rexburg (which is surprising as an Eastern Idaho native because I can’t imagine there are many things to do in Rexburg with no sports teams to cheer on).
Hi Mingjai:
Thanks for the correction.
Here is the deal with BYU, BYU Hawaii and BYU Idaho…
You can not have the same athletic programs at more than one campus if you are the same university. Hawaii does not have football, soccer, baseball, basketball, softball, etc. They have rowing and things like that.
It has nothing to do with whether or not the school wants athletics…it has to do with the NCAA rules. BYU Idaho could get itself a ski team or something that does not already exist at BYU or BYU Hawaii.
What is it that the sponsoring organization gets out of BYU Football?
The BYU football program is the most visible segment of the University -and the largest single money producer-, which means that it is constantly in the publics eyes. Has the sponsoring organization received good publicity from the football teams success in the past three years? I would agrue that they have. Did you hear Coach Mendenhall on the Jim Rome show? Were you impressed with how he spoke of not only the team, but the players? Those interviews and those players are a direct reflection of the Universites values and goals.
The Universities moto is “enter to learn go forth to serve”. The current football team contributes hundreds of hours of community service each semester, which broadens the reach of the University iinto the surrounding community. It also teaches principles of humility and service to football players that can -at time- be self absorbed. Is that an admirable pursuit? As far as your own sons go, you might have to shoulder a little extra responsibility in making them as virtuous as they can be. There is no substitution for a good parent. Don’t curse the football players because they were blessed with talents that enabled them to get their school paid for. The football team earns every penny of that scholorship -and if you don’t think they don’t think they do- try and get down near the field on a game day and just listen to the crack of the pads.
I would ask the missionaries in the south if having a good football team gives them additional opportunities to talk to people about the gospel? I would venture to say that it does. Will all of those converstation lead to future members in the Church, probably not. But how valuable is one soul brought unto the Lord?
For that instance the football team has had several non-member players become interested in the gospel because of that $250,000 dollars. I would say that the University was grateful to give Curtis Brown and Sete Aulai a scholorship because not only did the school profit from their abilities, but that $250,000 lead them into the waters of baptism.
I would also like to metion the firesides, which you bagged on in an earlier comment. Those firesides mean a lot to members in the Utah Valley area as well to the members in South Bend, Boston, California, Colorado and any other state were they been held. It gives the youth of the church an opportunity to see athletes in a different light. They get to hear spiritual experiences from players and coaches so that those in the meetings can be up-lifted and we may all rejoice together. (D&C) These firesides can give members a reason to talk to neighbors and friends, which creates missionary opportunities.
You of all people should understand how important advetising can be. Think of the Football team as a giant, wide reaching advertisment to the nation for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and BYU.
I would bet that the 60 million dollar athletic budget has done a great job of building, strengthening, and helping the purposes of the church.
Just FYI. I bet you didn’t know that the church sponsors( ie provides pads equipment and high school refs) for a full contact football intramural league at BYUIdaho. I was talking with some students from BYUI who played on last years winning team. It was full contact 9 on 9 and there were 8 teams. And we all know that at BYU and there other campuses that they provide intramural programs for those who don’t play at the collegiate level.
Paul, if you don’t think BYU should have a football or other collegiate athletic program that is fine, you are welcome to your opinion. However the Board of Trustees feel differently about it and the staff and Quinn are right on with their comments.
It is becoming more and more obvious that BYU should be recruiting O-Lineman more based on SPEED than WEIGHT. Maybe then the team could RUN-BLOCK! They do fine though when they don’t have to move (pass blocking).
Hi Mark:
Interesting.
Thanks to you, Quinn and others as well for the license to share my opinion in this forum.
One part of that opinion is that the Trustees can and have changed their minds about stuff. Things that once seemed as essential as breathing no longer are.
To me… in a worldwide Church… BYU Football benefits a select few.
I won’t post anymore on the topic or respond directly to Quinn’s valiant defense. But I will leave it with this: The average Mormon is now a woman in a Latin langauge speaking country. I can’t see any way that BYU Football benefits her.
These Churchwide demographic shifts have lead me to an inescapable conclusion: BYU Football is self-indulgence for a relative few.
Missionary work, in my view, would be advanced if Mormon scholarship D-1 athletes were playing for teams all over the country, instead of concentrating themselves at BYU.
Don’t forget that Eric Weddle joined the Church when he was at the U, thanks in no small measure to his coaches there. Anybody want to voice opposition to that?
Quinn raises the point of discussions in the south started over the subject of football. Imagine how that conversation would go in Alabama if the starting QB at Auburn were an RM?
If that seems unlikely, remember that RM at Boston College who got his start at Snow College. How much press do you suppose he got in the Boston (a top five market) during the two years he started at a Catholic school? I don’t know the answer, but I’ll bet (to use the langauge of marketing) his story got more impressions in Massachusetts than all the Mormon athletes in Utah.
Best wishes!
Paul Jones,
Forgive me Sir, I do not know who you are. I am new to Utah and a convert to the church. If you do not care for BYU, why waste your time on this site.
Why are you so rude and over bearing. Look, if you do not support BYU football no problem. But please do not post your negativity here.
The world is full of negativity and some like myself come here to enjoy what Quinn provides me the fan of the game.
Something tells me you just like to argue and attack.
There is no point to this unless you are seeking attention.
The Lord works in mysterious ways. People at my graduate school ask me questions about the church because they recognize my BYU hat and they remember hearing about BYU on ESPN on summer long.
Paul,
What did you expect when you posted here? We would all embrace your point of view? Newsflash! This site is operated and visited by BYU football fans. It’s like going to the Democratic National Convention and giving a speech about being pro-life. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out, that a majority of people who are there are pro-choice and won’t like or agree with what you have to say. This thread was suppose to be about the UNLV game and you tried to turn it into some vacuous diatribe about a non-existent, idiotic 10 year plan that the brethren have for BYU. Pray tell what other plans do the church have since you know sooooo much about what the brethren have in store for us.
Your comment about USU being an eventual WAC powerhouse (#10 on your list) earlier, reveals your true colors. You are a preposterous Aggie troll. I have a former aggies acquaintance who has a similiar outlook compared to yours. I have gone the rounds with him too and it all comes down envy. BYU is successful and USU is not. If BYU had nothing but losing programs then you wouldn’t even care. However since BYU is successful, and the aggies aren’t, then you think that it is unfair that BYU athletics exist. Maybe the Board of Trustees will see the light and get rid of it, like they did with BYU idaho. Wouldn’t that be awesome for you? Maybe the aggies would win a game then. However, BYU athletics isn’t going away in either yours or my lifetime……but you can always hope.
Yes we are a worldwide church and football doesn’t benefit someone in South America or Mexico, however it doesn’t hurt them either. Did the latino-mormon women of the world get a boost of some sort when BYUidaho was created and Rick’s college athletics ceased to exist. Nope.
My brother served his mission in Guam, Micronesia. He spent most of his time on the Island of Yap. The people there speak Yapeese. The church is translating the Scriptures into their language. The work and cost of the translation will benefit about 50,000 people. In a “world wide church” I guess it doesn’t make sense doing that because it will benefit only a small percentage of the overall church. right? It won’t help the people of Utah or the USA. It won’t help all those Latin speaking Momon women so I guess we shouldn’t help the people of Yap. We should focus on who is in the majority and just help them. The demographics…………
Name one way that BYU athletics hurts latino-mormon-women of the world? How will they be benefited by BYU athletics not existing anymore? You could make those arguments about anything the church does that is for the majority. How does the new temple in Twin Falls, Idaho help the the latino momon women of the world? It is all about demographics right????????
Well you can’t argue that the Latino-Mormon women of the world will benefit monetarily because, BYU’s athletics are funded by donors and by their own gate receipts. Not only does football and basketball programs pay for themselves, they also fund the other athletic programs, mens and womens at BYU.
Did you know that all the other D1 schools across the country use taxpayer dollars to subsidize there programs. In the state of Idaho it cost 30 million dollars a year to pay for collegiate athletics. Boise State’s football and basketball programs pay for themselves, but the rest of the states athletics have to be subsidized by the tax payers. I am sure it is a similar picture in every state. While you complain about demographics of the church you seem to have missed the inequities and skewed demographics in college sports across the country. Did you know that the highest paid state employees in many states are coaches. Their salaries are subsidized by our taxes. Remember BYU athletics is self sustaining.
Your inescapable conclusion is that you think that BYU athletics shouldn’t exist, and you only use the churches demographics to make a fallacious argument. I seriously doubt the Brethren use demographics as their only tool in making the major decisions of the church. That is 1 dimensional thinking and misses the whole picture.
We just had a ward party the other night. It was a self-indulgence by our ward members that only benefited themselves and certainly didn’t help any Latino-mormon-women of the world. Maybe we should eliminate Ward parties……..food for thought.
Now in regards to other LDS members being in other D1 programs, that is great and more power to them. It is basically a microcosm of what BYU is. If it is good for a LDS player to get press coverage on other teams, then isn’t it also good for an LDS team to get press coverage? And how much press coverage did BYU get when they played BC in that “top five market”? I watched the game. Multiple topics about the church and players were discussed on national TV. Would a LDS player on another D1 team have his religion discussed? Maybe,…. maybe not since we don’t have LDS or CTR stamped on our forehead many sportscast would go by without mention of religion, I am sure.
Weddle joined the church, I had no idea, and that is awesome. What a great example you have given us. Let see, Coach Kyle Whttingham a product of BYU athletics helped Weddle join the church. Chalk another one up to BYU athletics!
BYU’s program is having enormously positive effects in relation to the mission of the church. Take your blinders off, in Seattle this year, it was reported that over 1400 people came to the team fireside. . Similiar numbers were garnered in Texas and in the other cities. This has an imeasurable influence on youth who attend. BYU players are setting a positive roll model for young men and women. That isn’t to say that the Eric Weddle and other LDS players at other programs don’t have a great influence on the people around them. The thing is they both do. So to discount the good that BYU athletics are doing is simply shortsighted.
Three things it is best to avoid: a strange dog, a flood, and a man who thinks he is wise.
Welsh Proverb
Paul Jones-
The trustees of BYU are the First Presidency and Quorum of the 12 Apostles. When Coach Mendenhall was interviewed for the job it was with Elder Eyring, now President Eyring. I have no idea what specifically went on in that interview but I am certain that Coach Mendenhall was told how important it was for he and the program to represent the university and church in the most appropriate manner. I believe that the football team is a missionary arm for the church and has been since the early Coach Edwards years.
I have met Coach Mendenhall and although I do not know him nearly as well as Quinn and Markell, I believe that he is even a better man than he is a head football coach, and he is fsat becoming one of the best in the country. He is of the same caliber as a Stephen Covey and I believe he is a flag bearer among all NCAA football coaches. I am not sure how long he will be around, certainly not as long as Coach Edwards was, because the position has so much pressure and is like being under a microscope. It pains me to read some of the comments made about him and the program…I think we would all better understand what he is experiencing and be a little more careful about what we say about him and the players if we were to walk in his and their shoes for 24 hours.
“I have yet to find a man, whatever his situation in life, who did not do better work and put forth greater effort under a spirit of approval than he ever would do under a spirit of criticism.” Charles M. Schwab
It is easy for all of us, me included, to sit back and criticize Coach Mendenhall and the players for all kinds of things but true BYU football fans should first look to uplift rather than tear down.
Which Am I?
I watched them tearing a building down,
A gang of men in a busy town,
With a ho-heave-ho and a lusty yell,
They swung a beam and a side wall fell.
I asked the foreman, “Are these men skilled,
And the men you’d hire if you had to build?”
He gave a laugh and said, No indeed!
Just common labor is all I need.”
“I can easily wreck in a day or two
What builders have taken a year to do?”
And I thought to myself as I went my way,
Which of these roles I tried to play?
Am I a builder, who works with care,
Measuring life by the rule and square?
Am I shaping my deeds to a well-made plan,
Patiently doing the best I can?
Or am I a wrecker, who walks the town,
Content with the labor of tearing down?
Thanks Quinn for the best BYU football blog that exists.
Good night to all, and to all a good night…and yes, GO COUGS!
Why is Paul Jones even here? Seriously, if you are such great friends with Lavell why don’t you ask him those questions and leave this site for BYU fans who actually follow the program.
Go away self rightous TOOL!!
Nice Poem Walt.
I have two little boys, the elder is 2 and loves sports. He loves the cougars already and will likely be a lifetime fan. I love that I have so many good examples for him.
As he gets older, I can’t wait for him to go to a fireside and to see that these great athletes are good men. There are too many negative influences in the world. Thank goodness for any and every positive influence there is in the world.
You all said it far better than I ever could.
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