Well that was the melt-down of the season.
22 November 2008
Quinn Gooch
106 Comments
After that back breaking interception going into the half, I still thought BYU had a chance to overcome in the second half .
Even after the fourth interception, -fumble, I lost track- I still thought we could overcome.
Man, we blew it! It should have been closer.
I have to tip my hat to the Utes. They made plays, moved the ball, and capitalized off of the Cougars mistakes.
Lets hope the Cougs can heal up for their crappy bowl game.
I hate to be negative. I love BYU. And I love cheering them on. 11-2 seasons are great and all but when your rival is going to BCS games, its tough to swallow as a fan.
What a punch in the face that was. Holy cow!
Injuries played a role, no doubt.
But I think the real problem was that we were only really tested by TCU before this.
My own feeling is that we need schedule more competition earlier in the year so that we know where we are and what we need to do.
Fortunately, next year fits that bill. I can’t wait.
I’m with you Quinn. Melt-down is the right term. I’m gutted. That was a tough one to watch. I can’t watch the highlights, read the articles, all of it is painful.
Utes played well, though I think Coach Whit ran it up at the end there unnecessarily.
Let’s hope we remember that next year. I’m already looking forward to that game.
6 TOs, and you lose the game. There’s no way around that. I thought everyone but Max played well on the offensive side of the ball. I was very dissapointed that we didn’t play closer to the line of scrimmage on D, and thought we gift wrapped too many first downs.
Win or lose, that’s my team and I’m behind you guys.
Go Cougars
Nah Quinn, that was a FANTASTIC complete game by every cougar that wasn’t wearing #15.
Talk me back onto the Max Hall Bandwagon, please!
That game was a BYU win. We had that, had the Utes stammering, poised to pounce and crush.
Everybody but #15 played like a winner tonight for the team in blue. We had a chance until it became painfully clear we didn’t have a QB who could make a play and a quick strike – the 3rd interception.
Can you sugar-coat the interceptions? Fantastic plays by the red team? Seem like bad decisions – plus the passes the Ute DBs dropped, one on the tip at the line, and the other before Max’s first pick that bounced off the Ute’s hands.
I was so happy that the coaching staff kept with the run late in the game – although they didn’t speed up the offense, spike the ball for the clock, you know, act like they wanted to win.
I figured the play-callers were finally getting things into perspective (see first drive of the 3rd quarter, and even the touchdown drive. Incomplete passes and 2 big third down conversions, until the we ran the last 50 yards with ease and execution.)
Sadly, this was not so much the case as the coaches not being able to trust Max’s decision making.
Two games against good opponents, two crash-and-burn performances. It was completely in his head by the FIFTH pick.
PLUS the personal foul after the pick WITH 36 SECONDS LEFT IN THE HALF. THAT’S NOT THE TIME TO GIVE UP FIELD POSITION! His emotion and fire is all fun and games when BYU blows out MWC doormat programs, but his judgment against good teams has me throwing up in my mouth and looking down the QB depth chart.
Can we turn him into a running quarterback a lá Pat White and Steve Young? Become a power run team? Or will he just get even more banged up, a brace on both knees?
And it’s too bad Andrew Rich drew the foul for helmet-to-helmet. That was the highlight of the game. What a hit!
And Quinn, can you explain why Bradley tried to turn around and make a play with his left hand on the TD pass to Reed near the end of the 2nd Quarter? Seems like he could have watched the hands and the ball and stuck his lead hand in the air, batting the ball down. He looked junior-high-teenager awkward on that turnaround.
Best case scenario from the loss:
1. New leadership develops within the team.
Maybe it’s cause I’m not sitting behind the players can’t see as well, but there was a painful lack of on the field leadership, on both sides of the ball. Collie and Fui, not Hall, should have been offensive captains.
2. Docile bandwagon fans don’t show up to home games.
Yeah, those people that beat me to the refresh button in .5 seconds and take front row seats in the student sections, so they can wear orange and sit down, chatting on their cell phones.
3. Max Hall grows up
Pride cycle, my friend. If you’re gonna talk, you better show up to big time in-conference road games. You should be giving half-time speeches and refusing to give up the field when BYU wanted to punt while trailing 17 late in the game, instead of dejectedly trotting to the side. Show some emotion in a way where you don’t draw a penalty.
I’ll fill the stadium at some bowl, respect for guys like Fui, Mike Reed, David Nixon, Latu, the seniors who saw some transition in the program and stuck it out.
WE DIDN’T LOSE BECAUSE OF:
INJURIES
PLAYCALLING
LACK OF TALENT
NO MAGIC
NOT LIVING RIGHT
COACHING
CONDITIONING
PERFORMANCE
We lost because Max Hall had the worst game of his career.
It’s not doomsday – but if we want to be a big time program, we need a big-time QB. Max showed today he wasn’t the guy – YET.
Maybe he shows it next year, maybe he gets benched. Either way, I’m excited about the program’s performance tonight, aside from Hall, to be quite honest.
You know, when you break it down BYU as a whole played a better game. Hall just wasn’t thinking when he tossed #3 & #4. Of course the first pick didn’t make much sense. We moved the ball better than expected, especially on the ground. Our D held strong, Utah just started those last 3 possessions off the turnover within our 20. Such a hard loss to take seeing how hard our D and the rest of the team played. I hope Hall picks up some good lessons from this game.
BCS 2009!
Man, what a disappointment. I secured tickets through my wife’s grandpa who is and has been a die hard Ute for 50 plus years. I knew going through him would land me clean in the middle of Ute country. But I rolled the dice and decided to rough it out in lieu of watching the game in “HD” on the crappy MTN. I have to say what a truly horrible decision I made. Not that anyone out there will be surprised at the Ute’s reaction to a BYU fan sitting in their midst, but I was surprised at how low they have gone. I have been to Rice Eccles in the past watching my bro-in-law punt for BYU but today it was taken to a whole new level of profanity, lack of class and just pure trash. From watching the guy next to me get tackled by security to have some idiot clap and yell in my wife’s face (that almost went to blows but I think my 4 day stubble convinced him I am not the ordinary BYU fan and was ready to go fisticuffs…) to the sign that said, “Collie is a B****” they demonstrated a whole new level of ignorance, stupidity, and malice.
At the end of a hard loss like this there is something to be said about walking off the field, and out of the stands knowing there is a little something to the BYU program that they will never have. The one time I felt good tonight was running into Markell Staffieri before the game and seeing the sun glisten off his championship ring from last year. I immediately thought of next year when we get another crack at those freaking Utes.
Let me rephrase, Hall wasn’t thinking when he tossed any of those picks but especially 3 and 4 baffled me! What was the logic? I’m just completely confused with some of those tosses. Each time we were ready to take the lead and marching down strong suddenly a random toss for a pick happens. Each of those picks were not because Utah played well, Max just got his colors mixed up.
Quinn as a player you have to say your excited about the bowl game but when the press isn’t around what do the players say about the bowl games?
Two things: TCU, BYU, and Utah all won their home games this year. They will all win their home games next year.
I’ll have to go back and watch those pick, (well, maybe not) but usually, a QB doesn’t purposefully throw the ball to the opposing team. They usually throw the ball where they think the receiver is going to be – rarely do they throw the ball where the receiver is…
That was definitely a tough game to watch and I concur with most of the comments regarding the play of Max Hall. He had a poor game today, but he has still earned my respect based on his performance throughout his career and one game will not alter that.
The defense played very soft in the first half, but I felt the players/coaches really stepped up after Utah had scored 17 points and did a good job the rest of the game. The rest of Utah’s scores all seemed to come after they were given very short fields following turnovers. It looked like most of those turnovers were due to poor decisions by Hall, as opposed to great defensive plays by Utah.
Once again, Collie was solid. I would have liked to see him get more direct snaps or some punt returns
Here are a few questions I had following the game:
Since Hall was struggling so much, which was evident early based on the number of batted down passes and dropped interceptions, why didn’t BYU stick to the running game until Utah could stop them?
We didn’t hear Pitta’s name very often in this game. Was this due to Utah’s defense or did his injury really effect his play?.
Actually, we were lucky to have only six. There could have been eight or nine easy, possibly ten if the Ute defenders had snagged all of the balls they touched.
You can’t put it all on Hall. Even though he was not sacked, he was hurried and the passing lanes were covered and balls tipped and blocked. he can’t help being 6′ tall and this is why more and more, college and pro QBs need to be big guys.
Max made some bad throws and dropped the ball, but we could have won that game with two turnovers. The problem is that we had a very big, fast and athletic, more over VERY well coached Ute D-line causing many of the turnovers. But yes, there were a few that max shouldn’t have thrown.
Another thing that mattered was the crowd. I was there. If BYU fans ever stepped up the way Ute fans did tonight LES would be an impenetrable fortress. (I’m not giving credit to the horses a_ _ es who rushed the field, assaulted our players or acted like a mob in the stands.) This was actually the most hostile crowd I’ve ever experienced. The East, South and North stands were on their feet the entire game. I was in the north end zone, the middle of Ute country, and sat down a few times but everywhere in the stadium, the Ute fans were a big part of the game. I’ve had my say about this in another part of the blog so I won’t go into it further.
I am very frustrated about the results of the game tonight. However, I am extremely proud of this team and these guys. All I can ask for as a fan,(if I can ask anything) is that these guys play as hard as they can. After the TCU loss, I felt terrible about our defense. We were exposed. Like the dream waking up NAKED at school. We had nothing to cover our nakedness. But every single week, these guys praticed hard. They played hard, they found ways to win games they shouldn’t have. Two loses, three seasons in a row. Unbelievable. i am very very happy with these results. With the restraints we have, that is remarkable. I feel terrible for Max hall. what a competitor. He has led us to victory after victory. We win as a team, we lose as a team. I hope the other players and coaching staff help pick him up. I hope we as fans can support him. There is more to life than a football game on saturday. The firesides,The community service, The kindess. I don’t there are a better bunch of heroes out there. While this loss hurts, I am extremely proud of where we are with our program.
Max Hall just threw another interception. Guess he wasn’t living right on and off the field.
Sorry, Doug. I have never seen a game where a single player’s negative performance so heavily impacted the game. We consistently drove the ball late in the game only to have Hall turn it over. The final score was in no way indicative of how close the game really was. Utah played better, no doubt. But that wasn’t a 24-point difference. I’m not off of his bandwagon, but he needs to dial back and reassess things during the offseason. I think he has the talent of Beck (if not more), but just doesn’t have Beck’s decision-making capacity. He almost doubled his interception total for the season in a single game!!!
On the positive side, the D stepped up after a worrisome start, I liked the play calling for the most part, the direct TD snap to Unga was a thing of brilliance, Collie a stud, the running game was what it needed to be…. Please let us destroy whoever we end up playing in a bowl game.
Oh, and Ute fans continue to astonish me with their absolutely disgusting behavior. I realize that the worst are a relative minority, but I’ve come to absolutely revile them and their thuggish behavior. I thank heavens that I’m on the east coast and that the few that are out here aren’t the types to make a big stink out of this. My condolences to be fellow fans in Utah — they’re going to have to put up with a lot of manure for 12 months.
Quinn, any thoughts on Collie turning pro? I hope he stays, but he has had an incredible season.
5 INT and 1 lost fumble. Are you serious?! I’ve never heard of a player responsible for 6 turnovers in a game!! (i know, the last INT was tipped, but still!) I thought our defense stepped up. Our receivers, tight ends, kicker, and definitely our running backs played a great game. This loss goes 100% on Max Hall. 100%. Maybe he’ll man up and learn from it like Beck did. (I’ll be it Beck never had a game like that.)
On the bright side, we’ll see the Utes next year at the LES; without Sakoda, Johnson, Casteel, Freddy Brown, Darrell Mack, etc.
Also. does anyone else think we need a quarterback coach who can teach Max not to look down his receivers? Not that Bronco’s the type to fire Doman, but I think it’s be for the good of the team.
MAX IS A HEADCASE!!! Where is everyone at now to defend him. I said it 6 weeks ago and everyone was real quick to defend him. He is a freaking headcase. Once again, ANY QUARTERBACK on our team could have put forth the same pathetic performance.
Ohh and please spare me any talk that “he is still learning”. He is TERRIBLE, and a product of the system. What has he shown that 90% of the other QB’s in the nation can’t do . . . actually I don’t think they could put out 6 turnover performances.
This is my first time making a comment on any type of a blog. So take it easy.
I was at the game in the crimson club seats on the east side. Everyone around us was very classy, but they know me and my family. That’s where my good feelings for the Ute fans end. In general, Ute fans are delusional. I have been to all of the home games this year with my father-in-law(die hard ute) and the fans cease to amaze me with their junior high attitudes. They always think there is a conspiracy against the Utes and someone is always wronging them. In general they revel in being obnoxious and sophmoric. I would almost prefer the apathetic FHE mack fest in the BYU stands!
Having grown up in Big 10 country I never understood the BYU/Utah rivalry. Even when I was at the Y I didn’t get it. Now that we have moved back to SLC, after being away for 7 years post-BYU, I am now starting to get it. They hate us and are unapologetic about it. My mantra is now reciprocate the hate. I will never apologize for being a Cougar in this delusional city. I have become more of a cougar fan in the past six months since moving here than I ever was during my 4 years at the Y.
As for Hall, this game is on him. He needs to progress through his receivers instead of just locking in. Hopefully, he’ll use this as motivation going in to next season. I am very encouraged for next season. As for Utah, every pig has it’s day in the sun.
I feel sorry for Max Hall because he is going to get a lot of crap about this game for a while. It will be a good lesson and a test for him to see if he can recover and lead the team to victory next year.
Its not easy being the quarter of the BYU football team playing against Utah at Utah.
Wow Casey. Question, were you saying that last year when he practically won us the game escaping from the pocket on 4th & 18. Not sure if you’re another pathetic Ute or just a frustrated fan. Yeah I blame Hall but I certainly don’t think Gaskins is better or that he’s a bad QB. I personally think he does very well, just didn’t make smart passes.
Hall is not a headcase. He’s a good QB who just had a really bad night. It happens sometimes. If you wanna start Gaskins or one of our other benchwarmer QB’s over Hall, fine but I guarantee you this team would not be contending for the MWC title or only have 2 losses. We had 3 games where the game was on the line and the team needed a winning drive. If Hall was such a headcase, how is it that we were able to win those games? I understand that we’re all upset over how the game went down but let’s not throw out the baby with the bathwater. We have another game to play and I look forward to cheering our guys on even if it is another “crappy bowl game.”
One other thing about the game. With the number of Polynesian players on the Ute team, you’d think the other team performing the haka wouldn’t be that big of a deal. Contrary to popular misconception, the haka is not a taunt nor is it a sign of disrespect to a team’s opponent. I mean Maori’s perform the haka in all sorts of occasions. Bryce Mahuika performed it at his father’s funeral! Gee, how disrespectful!! The actions by the Ute team to break it up was classless and pathetic and the Polynesian players on that Ute team should’ve known better. With Bryce Mahuika leaving, it’s likely the haka will not be performed next year by the team so to all the haka hating BYU fans, you’ve got one thing to look forward to next year.
While this loss falls squarely on Max Hall, I’m a bit surprised by some of the visceral reactions posted on this site. He absolutely should take the heat for this loss, and he will. But to say that he is a head case or a bad QB is ridiculous. He has been a great QB and it has been a great season.
The sad thing is that unless BYU has an amazing year next year. Which includes a win over the U and a high profile bowl game win, this performance is what he will be remembered for. It shouldn’t be that way, it won’t be that way.
LET’S TALK ABOUT MAX HALL –
Those who have been following my posts this year know that I have consistently spoken on areas where Max could improve. I have addressed people calling him a “headcase” and everything else from terrible to great. After this game there are probably only a handful of people who are still on his “bandwagon” who don’t have the last name, Hall. But I am going to go against the grain here and say that what you saw tonight was not Max’s fault…at least not entirely.
If you were to go back and watch every game this year you would see that in EVERY game there were always about 3 or 4 passes Max threw that should have been picked, but guys just flat out dropped them. Coach Doman needed to nip that in the butt early and help COACH Max on how to make better decisions. You have to treat those passes as if they were INTs because that is what the potential result is. I didn’t see a progression in Max this year. I kept seeing the same mistakes over and over again and I can’t blame him for that. A coach needs to step in and be the person who views things objectively from the outside in. I feel as though Coach Doman and Coach Anae were so caught up in the success of the offense and the “stats” that were coming out of the game that they forgot to address the weaknesses that would hurt us against good competition.
My point is that Max really didn’t play much worse than he has all year, the difference was just that the Utes caught the ball. In the UCLA game when Max threw 7 TDs, he also threw 4 balls the UCLA guys dropped, and they wouldn’t have been spectacular plays…the guys just flat out dropped them.
I think Max has a lot of room to grow. I think he needs to mature a little more in his role as a leader, but the great thing is that he is capable.
MOST OF YOU READ THE POST BY JOHN BECK earlier in the week…what Max needs to do (and Coach Doman) is to spend the off season locked in the film room figuring our how he can get better.
Casey,
I know you are not a Max Hall fan, and I am not going to try and convince you otherwise, but please take this from someone who has played against “Every other QB on the Team”…they are not as good as Max. Maybe today one of them would have been, but not over the course of the season. And I am not saying Max has played AWESOME this year (see above post).
In fact this is the most troubling thing about BYU…we do not have anyone in the wings. If we only sign one kid in the off season it better be a sweet QB who can learn for a year and step in and dominate.
Seasider and everyone else. I don’t think it is just one game. Even those close games, how many of them were closer because Max gave up stupid interceptions or fumbles. Especially the fumbles…
Markell,
I fully agree with the above in the sense that he is thinking he is better than he is. Max thinks he throws a great game, but really gets lucky all the time. (And still he hardly throws to the other receivers and I’m guessing Pitta was intentionally not thrown to as much because of injury). I agree the staff should help him improve but he is a big boy and can take some responsibility too.
Seriously, does anyone think that Gaskins couldn’t have completed 50% of his passes en route to throwing 5 INTs, and fumbling the ball away once? Call Max tough or a fighter or whatever else you want. The fact remains that he opens his mouth, doesn’t show up, and hurts his team.
And Markell, you can blame the coaches for not teaching him, but someone of the team needs to tell him to shut his face and quit talking like he’s the sickest thing to come to BYU.
And someone PLEASE tell me who the hell he was throwing the ball to on the first INT.
He is a headcase and assuming the defense doesn’t magically become a top 10 defense, Max will lose our only 3 challenging games for us next year. He can beat the easy teams, just like Andy Dalton can, and any other mediocre QB with a decent supporting cast. Max is nothing special, and like I’ve been saying for MONTHS, we should look at getting a new QB.
Sorry boys but this was all on Max. He is one of our Superstars, Superstars have to show up for big games.
I really think most of us are going through the five stages. Here are the five stages so most of you can understand what you are experiencing right now.
1. Denial and Isolation
The first reaction is to deny the reality of the situation. It is a normal reaction to rationalize overwhelming emotions. It is a defense mechanism that buffers the immediate shock. We block out the words and hide from the facts. This is a temporary response that carries us through the first wave of pain.
2. Anger
As the masking effects of denial and isolation begin to wear, reality and its pain re-emerge. We are not ready. The intense emotion is deflected from our vulnerable core, redirected and expressed instead as anger. The anger may be aimed at inanimate objects, coaches, players, etc. Rationally, we know the person is not to be blamed. Emotionally, however, we may resent the person for causing us pain. We feel guilty for being angry, and this makes us more angry.
3. Bargaining
The normal reaction to feelings of helplessness and vulnerability is often a need to regain control–
If only Anae had went to the run sooner…
If only Hall’s passes where not batted down…
If only our defense would have blitzed more…
4. Depression
Two types of depression are associated with mourning. The first one is a reaction to practical implications relating to the loss. Sadness and regret predominate this type of depression. We worry that BYU will never be able to overcome this loss. We worry about how this will effect recruiting. This phase may be eased by simple clarification and reassurance. We may need a bit of helpful cooperation and a few kind words. The second type of depression is more subtle and, in a sense, perhaps more private. It is our quiet preparation to separate and to bid our beloved football season good bye until next year. Sometimes all we really need is a hug.
5. Acceptance
Reaching this stage of mourning is a gift not afforded to everyone. Lossing a game may be sudden and unexpected or we may never see beyond our anger or denial. It is not necessarily a mark of bravery to resist the inevitable and to deny ourselves the opportunity to make our peace. This phase is marked by withdrawal and calm. This is not a period of happiness and must be distinguished from depression.
To me personally this will be a very unfulfilled 10-2 season, concidering who we lost too. But it is still a 10-2 season. One that I am grateful to the coaches and players for. They worked their butts off and played their hearts out and gave us fans a very successful year.
Markell,
What are thoughts on Doman? This is the second time you have questioned his coaching of Hall. The first time was on Halls continuing to stare his receivers down and how you thought it was Doman who needed to work with Hall to fix this problem. Do you think Doman is the right choice for the job or did you see something in your time at the Y that maybe makes you question Doman as a coach? Please I would love to hear your thoughts on Doman.
Thanks Staff.
Excellent point on the coaching, and the passes that should have been picked.
The personal foul penalty either reflects an innate recklessness in Hall or very-poor QB coaching. Is that fair to say?
Fans have short memories though. I hope Max Hall does too – forget this game ever happened.
.
Can we trust Coach Mendenhall to look everything over, assess/execute accountability, and correct the mistakes at QB position? Coaching overall has been so excellent thus far, I hadn’t really considered Doman and Anae’s role in QB performance. Unfairly, I blamed Hall.
Was it the coaches fault that Max is a hot head and commits a CRUCIAL personal foul at a critical point in the game? That to me verifies that he’s a headcase. Not only is he directly responsible for 6 TO’s but also indirectly for 7 pts right before half because of his stupid penalty. Just because you suck doesn’t mean you should take it out on someone else. Guarantee he wouldn’t have done that if he knew that he was a mediocre QB.
Well, no sports talk radio for me for the next 2 months!
Markell hit the nail on the head – and it will be the key to next season – that Max needs to be locked in the film room all off-season. Review EVERY pick or near pick & fumble, and absolutely dissect the play. What options did he have in each situation: looking off defenders, stepping up in the pocket, staying in the pocket, etc. A few phone calls from John Beck would do a lot of good.
Consider me on the Max Hall bandwagon. He definitely had a horrible game and negatively impacted the outcome like nothing I’ve ever seen from one player, but he’s the man for next year, and I think he can do it.
I also would like to know WHO he was throwing to on his first pick. What a game KILLER!
I’m amazed at how unfulfilling 10-2 can feel!
Go Cougars in whatever crappy bowl we end up in.
We didn’t lose this game, the defense showed up more than they did against TCU. Max Hall lost the game. It’s as simple as that. No excuses for Hall, he didn’t show up for this game, just like he did against TCU. You throw 5 pics + fumble = Max Hall lost the game.
10-2 feels just fine to me, 11-2 will be even better. I think I went through those stages on M-Fr prior to the game, so I’m all good now (or is that still DENIAL???). Remember, we will possibly have 4 MWC teams finish in the top 25 at the end of the bowl games.
I liked Gordon Monson’s pregame article – the better QB (Hall) was going to lose. I agree with Staff that he hasn’t demonstrated progression this year. But, he still is our best QB, I would say the best in the conference (apologies to BJ and Dalton) and AT LEAST one that Arizona St fans wish they still had – I know, I know, Casey, you would prefer BJ, Dalton, any other QB in the conference, Gaskins and even possibly me playing QB instead of Max, but I’m not sure coaches in our conference would agree with you.
Echo the point of home game importance. We knew coming in that we would face TCU and Utah on the road. Finishing the reg season with only losses to those two teams at their houses is NOT shabby. It’s not excellence, but it is an above average season.
I don’t look for any juniors to go pro. In fact, I would say that was the difference between us and Utah this year – Senior Leadership. Collie can continue streak of 100 yard games and go in the record books and get the Biletnikoff next year. Max will have talk of Heisman. Guys will be healthy and our secondary will have a year’s experience under their belt. BUUUUTTT – the off season will be CRUCIAL and it starts now with preparation, study, working out and if they put in the same amount of effort that they did this year I think we’ll be looking at another 10 win season.
I don’t think we need to worry about signing a QB – I would much rather sign or see improvement in our secondary. We’ve got that Lone Peak kid who broke all of Utah’s high school state passing records and Utah St’s Riley Nelson may come on over. No one will beat out Max for next year.
Here’s to success for the MWC teams in their respective bowl games, especially the top 4.
Also agree with the comment by Paul Jones about competition. We had basically 3 tough games this year – TCU, Air Force and Utah (all on the road). Unfortunately, we can’t predict how good our opponents will end up being and that makes it hard to find and schedule good nonconference competition.
I don’t know what I’m going to do without this BLOG.
Lastly, be thankful you’re not a Boise St. fan. Undefeated and shut out of the BCS. THAT IS SO WRONG YET SO RIGHT IN SO MANY WAYS.
Though he had a rough game, I believe Max Hall is going to come back on fire next year. Hopefully Austin Collie will return. I want them to remember how the Utes ran up the score this year, and I want them to remember the trash the Utes were talking on us on ESPN.
Next year, I’m predicting an absolute beatdown of the utes at LES.
In the interim, I’m with you Bleeding Blue. I’ll be avoiding sports talk radio and sports highlights like the plague for weeks. Glad for that in-car MP3 player!
Go Cougars! We’ll get em’ in 09′.
Casey,
If your point that Max is a headcase is due to his lack of composure before the game and the fact that he thinks he is all world, then I can’t argue that. I due agree that he needs to be brought back to earth a notch a realize he does have to keep getting better and that there is room for improvement.
However, from strictly looking at the team and saying who is the bets guy to throw the ball? There is no question that he is the one. If you go back and watch the game you will see exactly how ACCURATE he is (Even when throwing to the other team
) and there were about 5 or so passes that he fit into a tight spot and NO Gaskins would not have made those throws.
It is not his abilities that hurt him, it is the decisions. And those have to be considered 50/50 – 50% Max’s fault, and 50% Coach’s fault.
Andy,
It is tough to say. I obviously don’t know what happens behind closed doors and my only other reference point is the coaching of John Beck. I spent about 15 hrs/week outside of football with John, whether it was hunting or family dinners or just hanging out, and I know that John NEVER stopped thinking of ways to get better or change an outcome of a game. So I don’t know how much Coach Doman was sitting down with him going over things, and how much of his progression was just him wanting to be PERFECT and not just better.
I get the feeling that some guys just felt they could show up and win, and because for the most part that is what happened people accepted the attitude. having sat in rooms with Tidwell, Mendenhall and Hill, I know that doesn’t fly. after playing four of the best games of my life at BYU I still got told it was not good enough. These were games in which I led the team in tackles and Coach Tidwell still pointed out TONS and TONS of plays where I could have done better.
I am sorry, but Austin will go this year. After this year’s draft there will be new draft caps to stop the insane contracts for rookies who have not proven themselves in the NFL. This means no more 20 Million guarenteed to the No.1 Pick. Because the 1st round guys will be “devalued” it will have a trickle down affect and so if Austin waits 1 more year he could lose hundreds of thousands to even millions of dollars.
I know you should be loyal to the school and program and what not, but you have to consent to the fact that when he is done he has to make a living. If you knew you could leave the business school early and make 1 Million more than if you stayed a year longer, what would you do?
NFL coaches like young receivers, and Austin is the top receiver in the country. I just don’t see any logical reason for him to stay. Pitta I am 50/50 on. I think we can all agree that after last night Max is staying another year. I think Harvey will need to stay and I think jan may look at going just because of age. That would be the biggest killer on the D because of his leadership qualities.
Kiyo…
I have to disagree with the Boise St comment. Well, I guess the fans are upset, but they shouldn’t be because Boise didn’t anyone all year, except for Oregon who is still just a notch above avg. I think Oregon only has that many wins because they came against Wash, Was St, AZ, UCLA…
Boise did not deserve it this year like they did last time. Their last trip to the BCS they had to play a tough team and pulled out a win. This year, if either them or Utah plays anyone BUT the Big Easy Champion (Currently Cinncy ranked #19..what?) They will get obliterated.
Oh, I agree. No one could blame Austin, Dennis and Jan for going up to the NFL. Especially Austin. He’s had a monster year. And to answer the question, I’d go NFL in a heartbeat.
I’m just hopeful they all return, because we could have the perfect storm for a monster team next year.
I think we just need to hit the recruiting trail looking for some help on the Defensive side of the ball as well as looking for a good backup QB.
Quinn and Staff: thanks for putting up this forum. It’s great to have a place to talk about the team and lament the loss without hearing all the crap from the other side in the newspaper blogs.
Here’s to a big 2009!
Quinn,
I’ve enjoyed most of your articles but I take exception to the way you refer to BYU’s “crappy bowl game.” 10-2 and the Las Vegas Bowl is crappy? If I remember correctly that’s the best you and your team mates ever did with a better quarterback and better defense and you seemed happy about it. Give these guys a break.
wow people. Max had a bad game no doubt. But he has had two great seasons overall. Lay off the guy, he has earned enough respect in my opinion. Anae not running the ball was a big part of the loss as well. Max will be fine, he will come back strong next year and the cougs will again be a bcs favorite.
I can’t believe how many jump of the bandwagon after one bad game. Get a grip people.
Morbidilyobese,
I think what Quinn is trying to get at is that fact that with the stage that was set coming into the season the Vegas Bowl is crappy. The fact about the 06 team is that no matter what we would have done that year, the Vegas would have been our best bowl. We would not have been considered for a BCS bowl. In 07 we had a shot, but had our losses early so there was still no hype around us. We set up a pretty good stage for these guys, and they are only going to go to the Vegas bowl and play another garbage team from the Pac-1. This I think is the biggest disappointment. You don’t get to really show your stuff and prove anything because you have to play a mediocre team. So like in 06 you can blow ‘em out, but who cares? They were terrible. Or in 07 you can win and dramatic fashion, but then you are left thinking, “Why did we not blow them out, we were so much better than them?” It may not be a lose – lose, but it is pretty close.
I didn’t see the game. What I’m absolutely sure of is that no one is hurt more by this loss than Max Hall. Maybe he did it to himself but I suspect there had to be something in there he hadn’t seen before. He’s been too good for too long to have this be just a mental issue.
He’s a very good quarterback and he’ll be back doing very good things for the Cougars in the bowl game and next year. He’s had a tremendous season for us. It’s a real shame that his worst game of the year had to come in this game but sometimes those things happen. All the other great BYU QBs had those kind of days too–I remember seeing a few of them.
Max is a fierce competitor. Again, he’ll be back and I’m sure he’ll have learned something from this. John Beck just said the seeds of his 2006 win were planted in the ashes of his 2005 loss. Max Hall has already done enough for us to be worthy of our unstinting support. He deserves it.
Disappointing,
It appeared that Pitta was not at full strength. That was the least productive game for him that I can remember. When he is on it seems to open everything else up.
I think we ran the ball well and should have kept doing it. It would have put less pressure on Max and opened the passing game up more. It was easy for Utah to key on the throw to Collie.
Hopefully Utah gets a good team this year. Oklahoma, Florida, Texas, USC, Alabama will be their first real test ever and I think Utah will lay an egg like they did against Boise State.
Hopefully, we can get healthy for our PAC10 foe.
Staff,
Why was the U able to get so many battled balls? BYU never have batted balls from the d-line. This seems to be something the team should focus on…especially when they are not getting to the QB.
Casey,
If your cure for Max Hall’s headcase syndrome is to convince him that he’s just a mediocre QB then I’m glad you’re not his QB coach. Confidence is essential to a successful QB. If he doesn’t believe he’s all that and a bag of chips then he shouldn’t be on he field period. The success and failure of an offense starts with the QB. It is the QB who does all the talking in the huddle and tells the players what to do and keeps the team confident that they can score and win. When the game is on the line, nobody wants a QB in the huddle shrugging his shoulders saying, “Don’t look at me! I’m just a mediocre QB!”
Unfortunately, with Hall we’ve seen how that confidence can be a 2 edged sword and that is the challenge the coaching staff will have with Hall. Harnessing his skills to positive decision making but at the same time, letting Max be Max.
It’s a tough balancing act but it is correctable. If it wasn’t, Brett Favre would have picked sixed his way out of the NFL years ago.
I’ve come to terms with the game, infact I found a way to detach from it before it began.
Markell is right, Max threw many “would’ve been” interceptions all year.
I’m pretty close to the Jacob Bower situation. He left because he didn’t get along with Doman. I watched him play in high school and he was a great QB. That was a big loss for us. Maybe there’s more to the Doman situation than we’ve thought about.
Either way, we lost, Utah won, and for some odd reason I feel at peace. Maybe it’s because BSU got shutout of the BCS. Man I need to repent.
We had this same discussion on Max after the TCU loss. I feel right now, as I did after that game and that is that I may come across as being against Max. I am not against Max. I think he is a very competitive player and I think he is an extremely accurate passer. What I want to see is growth. I want to see him mature as a leader, and improve himself in his weak areas.
3 Things I want to see him work on in the offseason.
1) Learning the names of his other receivers because Reed graduates, Collie is probably gone, and maybe Pitta.
2) Go back and look at the almost picks and the picks and find out how he could have moved the D with eyes and feet to open up the passing lanes. Then look at the decision making process of the throws.
3) THROW THE BALL AWAY. I would like for someone to go back and watch the film and tell me 1 time, just 1 that he threw a ball away this year to avoid a sack, or not force a throw.
On the bright side, instead of throwing it away the last 2 games, Max did start to run a little and get a few yards instead of forcing things. Now lets go up a few notches.
Tim,
I am not sure what was going on there. I had the same question all game. I have not re-watched, nor do I feel like I can without becoming frustrated all over again. I will say this. One of my keys to the game was our O Line winning the matchup against their D Line in the pass game. I don’t think we won that battle. We did win the battle in the run game though. And that is what was keeping us in the game.
HOW ABOUT THAT DEFENSE? No, Not the Utes…
I can’t say enough how proud I was of our D for the most part in that game. They were over-matched, and they rose to the occasion. They were constantly given a short field to work with and they responded. Think about this, after 3 Offensive turnovers we were still only down by 3. That is a credit to how our defense was playing last night. Going into the game Utah was avg 4 yds/rush and that is what BYU was giving up. We held them to 3 yds/rush and that is HUGE! Sure we had bad drives and did not play perfect, but the D showed a ton of HEART and never quit. I am very proud of my boys on D.
Tim,
Kruger and Misi really outsmarted us on the D line. Mark Lyons made the point during the broadcast that many times they were content with not rushing and just “staying in the passing lanes.” They knew we were 3 step drops and they weren’t going to get sacks (0 sacks on the day). Instead, they hung back, and got arms in the air to tip balls. And Kruger’s pick was a sick play. I hope HE goes to the NFL…
Things to help with batted balls: 1) raising release point, 2) moving the pocket, 3) pump fake, 4) “looking off” the defensive player.
Gosh, I’m disappointed that Collie will go pro. I didn’t know about the salary issues. I definitely think he should go in that case. So much for McKay and him lining up together…
Kiyo –
We won’t get Collie/Jacobsen, but we will get Jacobsen/Ashworth/Chambers…that too has a lot of potential to be a great attack. McKay is the fastest receiver we have had in, well, ever and Ashworth has proven that he can make plays. Chambers will only get better and made a couple great plays when he got thrown to this year. Collie will be missed for sure, but we have the right guys to take his place.
Whether Max Hall throws five or 15 picks against the Utes or any other team he’s still the man in Provo. I will, as a loyal cougar fan, support him through thick and thin, and while it’s tough right now he’ll have his redemption. He is still one of the best quarterback’s in the nation and I’d take him in a heartbeat over Brian Johnson. Hall for Heisman in ‘09!!!
Markell & Gooch-
First I agree, the D definitely stepped up their game.
Second, if you played in that game, would you not be pissed at Max right now for losing the game? What would your thoughts and feeling legitimately be after the game? And who would you feel was responsible?
I’m not going to say anything about Hall, He has gotten enough attention for this game. But my goodness, the defense really showed up! BYU was totally in that game even after 3/4 turnovers! Throughout the game I was saying that our defense can not hold up all game long and our offence has to score and take the lead, it never happened. So Great job Defense! started slow and then really stepped up! too bad the ute offense had so many blasted possessions!
couple thoughts on the game. My biggest problem with the game last night is we didn’t stick with the run. We were down 3 and driving the ball by playing smash mouth football they could not stop Unga or Fui. Then we try a deep ball to Austin that is picked. The defense forces another 3 and out. We get the ball again and run for 8 yards then try and pass and max fumbles. Game over. If you would have told any byu fan that both fui and harvey would combine for over 200 yards rushing and average over 7 ypc who would have thought we would have lost? I don’t care what anyone says about Max. He played poorly tonight no doubt but I love his fire and the way he competes and I can’t wait to see how he matures and over comes this game because no doubt he will. On a side note I was happy with our defense they played well enough tonight that would have allowed us to win.
Even Detmer tossed 7 picks when he was with Detroit. Was he a horrible QB? Everyone has a bad day. Too bad Max Hall’s was yesterday
Casey,
You know the best example to answer your question is this. Remember when we played at Boise in 04 and Matt Payne missed that short FG at the end of the game? Because that was the last play everyone blames him for the loss. What people tend to forget is that our O had 1st and G on the 4 and went 4 and out. Had our O punched that one in we wouldn’t have needed a FG.
When I look at this game the first thing that ticked me off was the Pick right before half, then the personal foul. That Personal Foul put the Utes in FG range. But then I was ticked at the D because you know Sakoda is money, so the FG is almost a given…so how you can let yourself get beat deep? So we should have at least got a FG and tied the game, then a pick and penalty give Utah a FG so we should be down 6, but then our defense plays stupid and we end up down 10 with a HUGE momentum swing. So going into half I was actually blaming our D for not playing smart. (Also because they kept giving up the same perimeter plays on the run and pass.) The second half the D made the adjustments and kept us in the game as long as they could. Of course Max didn’t play well, we’ve talked enough about that, but I want to ask why we didn’t keep running? You know we avg 7 yrds/rush? Why not keep the ball on the ground and where them out? I believe that was one of my keys to the game…play physical and beat them into submission.
So who to blame? I blame Max and the OL on the pass for the execution and I blame Anae for the play calling, but pointing fingers doesn’t help you win a game. It is a team game and to win the big ones both sides of the ball have to play really well. This game we flip flopped. The D struggled in the first half and the O struggled in the 2nd and so you get beat.
Now can we jump off the Max Hall bandwagon????
Hey Gooch, whats your thoughts on Anae being on the sideline instead of in the booth? Bronco needs to give him a reprimand for not running the ball more against Utah. I’ve felt the last several years that our OC belongs in the booth, and now i’m convinced that is the case.
Wow,
As a blue bleeder, truly a lot to swallow. Saddened however, at the plethora of comments directed at Max and his incompetencies in this game. Does anyone remember Ty Detmer’s game at Hawaii (after he was just awarded the Heisman trophy)? We know we outplayed them, the stats show the 28 points off turnovers was the difference in the outcome. Trust me, every Utah fan was biting their nails til very late in the game, despite being up by 17.
As true die hards, let’s show our support for the team and what we represent. The sentiments shared about Utah fans are ubiquitous and seem to be a common thread. We can’t get down on our team as they have truly accomplished a great deal the last three seasons. I hope Vegas is not only a sell out, but that the stands appear as a sea of blue cf. our Pac 10 opponent. I hope we get rich off Utah’s berth and that they go on to win against a subpar conference, like the big ten or big east, only good for the conference and adds more controversy to the BCS.
Thanks Quinn for everything, hope to see what the bowl brings us. Too bad, you didn’t play BBall for the cougs as well. Maybe Doug can give us some insight?
Max Hall is still the man! However, I must say that the Utes best player yesterday was Max himself. Last year When we played at home against Utah on 4 and 18 Max showed what he can do under pressure, he has it in him. But yesterday it got to him. He is no John Beck who never doubted that they could come back and win at the last second two years ago, John played consistently that entire game. I still believe in Max, maybe his overconfidence has been humbled a bit.
On a side note it seems likely that we are yet again going to the Vegas bowl, it might not be a great game because Unga, Reed, and Pitta (and others) are injured. with two minuted left in the game why do you leave those guys in with the possibility of getting them injured, bad call by the coaching staff.
i’ve heard some differnt “facts” about the BCS money, can ya’ll enlighten us as to how much the “non-BCS” schools get and how it is give out?
Well, after reading all the hate Max mail, I’, thinking not many realize what really happened there. Ute coach Anderson had a great game plan, he figured out where most of Max’s passes had been going and played those passing lanes.
Why our O coaches didn’t pick up on that is the mystery! Some years ago we lost a bowl game to Ohio State because of fumbles, everybody in the stadium and on tv could see the OSU players were going after the ball on every tackle, and they got it. Way back then we were wondering why the coaches and players didn’t figure that out.—-
Same thing here, why wasn’t it seen and delt with?
Well, there green pasture ahead, I was just told Anderson the puke DC has been offered the HC job at NM.
I’m up for another trip to the LV bowl, I don’t care, just love football, win or lose!
Still think we need to add a quick opener to the O play book!
I really don’t see how this 10-2 season was a success. We won 8 games we were supposed to. This season was all about four games: The two PAC-10 teams and TCU and Utah. We went 2-2 in the games that mattered. The other games count, but the season was going to be judged in how BYU performed in those four games. And BYU only played a complete game in one of them, barely hung on against a team that didn’t win a game and played their worst games of the year in the other two.
Losses are tough, I know I’ve wanted to run into the woods after the last two rivalry games, so this one was obviously much more fun. I do have two requests that no one here will oblige.
1. Stop making up stories about mistreatment at RES. You guys/gals don’t like people that drink alcohol, and that’s fine, just say that then. I’ve been going to Utah/BYU games for almost thirty years and have never seen an old woman tipped out of her wheelchair, kids punched in the face or housewives berated in front of their cowering husbands. I understand that there’s heckling, but please show me a venue on rivalry day that doesn’t have that. No one here better say LES. Just because your fans say frick instead of the real word doesn’t diminish the intent or meaning.
2. Use all the meltdown, beat ourselves just didn’t execute excuses you want. If Utah had lost, I would be doing the same rationalizing. However, I’ve already had one BYU friend say that BYU just doesn’t get as excited for this game as Utah. Bull. Go back and read the comments following Jon Beck’s post about 2006. Read about how it is one of the happiest memories many of the fans ever had, about the 26 cousins listening to the KSL feed in Botswana; erupting for joy at Harline’s catch. This game meant more to Utah this year, because they were playing for a BCS bowl, outright title and $4 million.
That’s all, have fun in Vegas. I live here so I’ll probably try to make the game. I’ll cheer for the Cougs because I care more about the MWC’s success than I do about hating BYU. I’ll also be heading to a BCS game for the second time in 4 years, so that should be pretty cool. I’ll let you know how it goes.
I forgot, one more thing. One of the best moments of yesterday was when the Utes stopped the fake “haka” before the game. The look on the faces of the Y players was priceless.
I’m a true BYU fan… But sometimes I just gotta say, “WHAT THE CRAP!!!” That’s all I’m gonna say about last night’s game.
I hate when Ute fans come onto our boards and pretend that they are cougars. Get a life!
I also need to remind people that we are not going to the Las Vegas bowl. TCU earned that spot. Utah earned the #1 being undefeated, then TCU earned #2 with only 1 conference loss. We get third place with 2 losses. This means we are looking at the Poinsettia bowl in San Diego. This is a good thing. Instead of beating a crappy PAC-1 team, we get to beat up on the #2 WAC team. Maybe that will get the WAC fans to shut up for awhile.
I disagree Markell about Utah vs. anyone but the Big Least. I would put Utah up against anyone this year and like the odds. Utah is good and they know how to win. The SEC and Big 12 have been unchallenged again, as they don’t play anybody out of conference. The SEC especially does not look that impressive out of conference this year. The Big 10, ACC, PAC-1, and Big Least are all a joke this year, and the MWC is better than all of them. I wish the red team good luck and I hope they get to play someone besides Cincy.
AF Ute,
Nobody in the previous posts on this thread has given those excuses for our loss. Maybe you should have read before you posted. And don’t try to cover up the hostility that exists in your stadium with the old “you’re just judgmental” crap! Everyone knows the truth, and truth is that the worst of your fan base is ridiculous. Even TCU fans were astonished this year, look on the MWC board for reference. Also, this is not a typical blog. If you want to cause trouble go to cougarboard!
BYU moved the ball when they were balanced. In the second, they got the run game going, it opened up the pass, and they were able to get right back in the game.
In the third, down by ten the Cougs put together a sustained drive of 83 yards and 11 plays. They passed the ball 5 times and rushed 6. They were balanced and they scored.
From there on out though they went primarily to the pass. On the very next series, they threw four straight, rushed once, and then Max threw the pic to Johnson coming over the top.
The run game was there and they missed it. The Cougs died by the pass, in similar fashion to the TCU game.
That’s bad play calling if you ask me, and it isn’t the first time we have seen it this year.
Max had a bad game. In fact, bad doesn’t even begin to describe his performance. The Coaches however are to blame as well for the choice to abandon the run.
It happens. You take the bad games with the good. Max has given us 21 wins as opposed to 4 losses. Don’t give up on the guys just yet. He’s a good QB. Those of you arguing otherwise are short sighted.
Trey,
I think we will end up with the Vegas because it is supposed to go to the Champ, as you mentioned, but since Utah will go to a BCS bowl then they just get FIRST PICK of what team they want, not necessarily next in line. I would imagine they would pick us again.
Trey,
The title of this post includes the word meltdown. Looks like my comprehension isn’t as bad as I feared.
Of course byu fans are judgmental, everyone is. I just hate the stories that byu fans make up to demonize ute fans.
As far as me leaving. I’m sure someone trying to make a successful blog(Gooch) just hates it when fans from other schools come over and read/post, click on sponsor links etc. When he asks me to leave I’ll do it.
Have fun in Vegas!
A MESSAGE TO ALL BYU FANS –
Last night was my first time as a fan in RES. About 1/2 the Ute fans I ran into and sat around were pretty good fans. Cheered for their team and went on their way. The other 1/2 were by far the least tactful fans I have ever been around. And I have been in Yankee Stadium against the Sox, I have to Boston vs the A’s with the Pennant on the line and I have been to both stadiums in Philly…trust me I have been around the worst and they are in RES.
I have not been a fan in the stands at LES for this game before, but I hope that 100% of our fans are more tactful than the Ute fans. I remember in 2004 when the clock was winding down, Mike Marquardt telling me to put on my helmet because the fans were coming down. Good thing I did. Then I remember listening in the car on the way home as the announcers said, “Oh this isn’t good, the Utah fans are engaging in fights with the BYU players and not letting them off the field.
I am proud that I have never heard of that kind of BS happening in Provo. I hope it never does.
I want to share another story and I hope the right point comes across. As I went into the bathroom before the game a Ute fan was making some comments to me from behind. I turned around and simply held up my 2nd MWC Champ ring. He said “I don’t give a crap about your ring, blah blah blah…” Then another Ute fan said, “I don’t think you can mess with that ring.” (For those who have not seen the 2nd one, it is quite large) Then a little Ute kid asked where I got it and I told him I played and he wanted to see it and said it was “cool.”
When I got into the bathroom the guy who was yelling at me walked by and just said, “That is a pretty sweet ring.”
I think he realized the one thing I wish more fans on both sides would realize. He (the Ute fan) had never beaten BYU, nor had HE ever lost to BYU. I HAVE beat Utah and I HAVE lost to Utah. The fans should be there to cheer their teams on, but should respect the opponents fans and team. I respect Utah players. I will probably never go fishing with them, but I am a Charger fan and I do like that we have Weddle on our team.
Last night I was a fan. I was not a player. I couldn’t strap on the pads and impact the game. Unless you are on the field strapping it on, I think your place is in your seat cheering as loud as you can for whomever you choose to root for.
Air Force Ute –
The success of Quinn’s Blog is centered on it being a place where Cougar Fans can come to get valuable information about THEIR team. The Blog’s objective is not to discuss other teams in a negative manner, only objectively as it applies to the upcoming game (or a post game wrap up).
It is meant to be constructive criticism which helps the fans understand what went on during the game and why.
Please don’t confuse this Blog with Cougarboard and other chat rooms whose sole purpose is traffic. Early in the week Quinn addressed the fact that it is more important to have a productive environment to come learn more about football and BYU than it is to make money of off traffic.
So we (Quinn and I) would ask that if you want to be tactful and constructive in your comments then feel free to post here and join in the discussions. If however your sole purpose to complain about BYU fans and talk about how inferior we are to your team, then we would ask you to please respect our space. Thank you.
Staff and Quinn,
I totally agree with both of you. Although the melt-down was tough, I was proud of the way our D kept us in the game even with all of the turnovers. The fact is, thanks to our defense, we were still totally in the game until a little ways into the 4th quarter. I also give kudos to the whole team for continuing to play hard even when the game was finally locked up.
I’ve been feeling rather upset at Max, but I’ve gone through the stages described above rather quickly and realize just how grateful I am that Max is our quarterback. For those dissing on Max I think that you either didn’t see or have forgotten how often Detmer used to throw interceptions. Yet, in my opinion, Detmer is still one of the greatest college quarterbacks to ever play the game. Max is on track to be the most successful quarterback at BYU, second only to Detmer.
On a more positive note: this is probably the most financially beneficial loss in BYU’s history (smile) and thank goodness it’s an MWC team going to a BCS game.
Lastly,
Ok Staff, now I agree with you, unfortunately Collie is probably not going to get the Biletnekoff(sp?) Award this year…
Oh. One more thing, a couple of weeks ago on KSL they mentioned that the NCAA record for consecutive 100 yard games for a receiver was 11. If Collie does that in the bowl game he will have tied the record.
Good stat I was not aware of that one! I also heard a really neat story about The BYU receptions record set by Matt Bellini. I want to check and see how close Austin is to that one. Supposedly when Bellini broke it the man who held it flew to Provo and gave the game all that was given him, to Bellini. I would imagine that Bellini would carry on the tradition.
Question for Everyone:
Can you read this explanation of the BCS and tell me if it means that Utah AND Boise could be in a BCS bowl?
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/bcs_selection_procedures.html
Again, a question, similar to above. WHY is Anae not in the box and Doman not on the field coaching his QB when they are in tough game spots like this? Makes no sense to me. Anae is not a QB coach. He should be in the box to focus on game planning and adjustments, Reynolds on the field to help manage O, and Doman on the field to manage his QB and what he is seeing from the D. Thoughts, answers?
Yes, both teams could get in. Utah is automatic, but the following also suggests that BSU can get in.
“If two or more teams from those conferences satisfy the provisions for an automatic berth, then the team with the highest finish in the final BCS Standings will receive the automatic berth, and the remaining team or teams will be considered for at-large selection if it meets the criteria.”
To do so, BSU would also have to finish in the top 12 of the BCS or top 16 and higher than say Oregon State or some other BCS conference champ.
The difference is that BSU wouldn’t be automatic, but would be eligible to be selected as an at large team.
But my guess is that they will be by passed for another BCS team.
I’ve never heard so much hate speech as I did last night from the Ute fans, and I live in The Big Apple, the capital of it.
Four pointers for the Ute fans:
1) The whole “we’re not mormon” thing is cute, but your coach, your university president, and a good chunk of your team is mormon. And outside of the 801, everyone just assumes you’re all mormon because you go to a school with “Utah” in the name. In any case, saying “we beat those motherf#$%#$ mormons” is not only hate speech, it’s also stupid.
2) The loud minority really does make you guys look like small-town hooligans
3) I shot a video clip while I was walking “the gauntlet” yesterday that I’d love to submit as Exhibit A if anyone needs proof of classless fandom. I’ll email it to you, Air Force Ute.
4) I’d tone it down before your BCS game, because you’re going to get destroyed, no matter who you play.
Seems to me like Max Hall could have benefitted from sitting a series or two after having made key mistakes during the year. Seems like he need to sit to clear his head and see what was going on.
I believe Collie actually became the backup quarterback over Gaskins. With Collie in the backfield, all of a sudden you have a Jake Locker type player there. That could be interesting. I would bet that the plan was to have used Collie in a Wildcat formation a little more in the Utah game, but the game just didn’t allow for it to happen. Let’s see what the bowl game brings.
Looking at the depth charts, seems like Utah is really loaded with the seniors this year. BYU, other than the O line, there are not many seniors. Could be a good omen for next year.
I had hopes for Chambers as a returner, but he just doesn’t seem to get away like Collie can. If Collie goes, we need someone other than Chambers who can make plays on the kick off and punt returns.
Hope they can win the bowl game. That will help ease some of the pain from losing to TCU and Utah this year.
Love the site !!! Best place for BYU info – Thank you!
I know there are a ton of people completely off the Hall bandwagon – but when we look to the silver lining there was a pretty bright lining in Hall’s game on Saturday – his running the ball – that was pretty awesome. Huge surprise for me. I think he showed how important this game was to him by his lack of the star QB slide. He did a good job of making a lot of the Ute defenders miss him on his way to some pretty good yards. Even if he still “stares his receivers down” next year I think if he is a pretty good running threat he’ll keep the opposing defenses off guard.
I do have a question for Staff – I know tons of tv experts think the two qb system is terrible, but it seems we are so concerned about our star qb getting hurt that we have him slide to avoid the hit. From my non-player’s perspecitve it seems that if we are looking to run the ball then we start the play with 10 on 11 ’cause our qb isn’t typically going to run the ball. If we rotate a qb similar to rotating a running back/receiver/tight end are we really losing leadership on the field? Especially where we run a no-huddle offense anyway? Rotating qb’s makes it so that if our qb is injured we aren’t totally messed for the rest of the season and we can have him play a more aggressive role during the run plays.
Staffieri,
Since I guess you’re one of the partners in this blog, I’ll respect the wishes of the admin. and leave shadesofblue off my browsing list. You probably wouldn’t get many Utah fans over here if there weren’t entire sections of the site devoted to the rivalry, but I digress.
I would like to ask the BYU fans on here how they survived serving missions with such thin skin. Honestly, listening to you guys whine about someone not being nice to you is pathetic. I didn’t serve a mission, not being LDS, but in the military they tend to raise their voice at you and call you some names that you might not like. The best thing to do is suck it up and be a man. If the stories you guys tell actually happened, what are you doing sitting there and taking it like sheep? My guess is because you’re full of it. Go ahead and send me that clip Kyle, I’d like to see what you guys consider abuse.
Either way, don’t come back if you really believe it’s that bad, nobody at RES will miss you. I’ll be in Provo next year, again, and when I get yelled at for wearing red I promise I’ll come right back here and whine like a schoolgirl that skinned her knee. How’s that for a deal?
BSU could get in, but they would need to be SELECTED as an “at-large”, because only ONE non-BCS school gets the AUTOMATIC bid – Utah. But, who would choose BSU over Ohio St? Who would take them over USC? BSU FANS ARE MAD. They are BIG TIME Bruin and Duck fans, because if Oregon St. loses to Oregon, then the automatic bid will go to USC and that is Boise’s ONLY chance. If the Beavers can get the job done against the Ducks, then there will be 2-3 3-loss teams (ACC champ, PAC 10 champ and possibly Big East champ) that go to a BCS game over an undefeated Boise St.
Collie is now BYU’s all-time leader in receiving yards with 3,077 over Eric Drage (I remember watching that guy he was money) 3,065 in 1993. He has 197 career receptions, needing 8 more to break Bellini’s record of 204. Yes, Bellini will fly out and pass on the ball to Austin if he breaks that one. If he stayed next year, he would own every single individual receiving record at BYU that only McKay Jacobsen would hope to get second to (he didn’t have as good of a freshman season as Austin did). I am more sad that he will turn pro than I am that we lost to Utah. If there’s anything that Max did well it was keep Austin’s streak alive, though I know he would give up the streak for the win against those darned frickin Utes.
AF Ute, I think you would be welcome on this site if you supplied more Cougar-related technical info and/or topics that Quinn and Staff can answer with their expertise. This is a BYU stats, X’s & O’s website – so you’d probably don’t have that kind of BYU interest – if it were Utah I’m sure you’d be all over it.
So at least we have a better blog than y’all – get one of your own former players to break down the Utah film, stats, schemes, strategies and players for you. It kills me that Utah was the first BCS buster, that they filled our “quest for perfection” this year, that they have gone BCS twice and we haven’t, but I try to save my opinions about fans, etc, for elsewhere and keep things objective on this site. BTW, I hate the Utes, but will root for them in their bowl – I happen to think they will do quite well but they have to be a little upset not to be in the NC game.
Staff, thanks for the comments about wearing those rings to RES, that somehow makes this loss easier for me. My daughter said to me after the TCU game, “We may have lost, but we still have our dignity!”
Quinn and Staff and all the other former Cougar players have personal experience being on the field (and now in the stands) and that’s what makes this blog a rockin’ one, especially for us geeks who’ve never played the game.
Can’t wait until I’m done with the military and I’ll be like AF Ute and go to every Holy War and every Bowl Game. Maybe by then we’ll be a BCS conference.
Ki
AF Ute-
I don’t care what you think or what you do anyplace else. Just do as the admin here has requested or go away.
Staff, Quinn,
Gentlemen, I’ve visited most of our opponents’ websites this year. While I’ve seen some anti-Mormon commentary, particularly at Wyoming, I’ve also seen opposition fans on their boards chastise their classless element and tell them to keep the talk on football. On some occasions I’ve commented but I’ve always made sure to be polite, conciliatory and strictly about football/player on-field issues. That approach goes over very well; I was told twice this year that I was welcome to come post any time on two separate MWC opposition boards.
The type of approach I described above is nothing special; it’s what any decent guest should do when visiting someone else’s space. I went to the TCU web site this year and noted several comments to the effect that “it’s really hard to want to rub the loss into BYU when they’ve got such a classy fan base.” Despite the loss, that cheered me immensely–it means our fans are representing our school as we would all hope to see it represented.
I remember David B. Haight talking about playing basketball against Utah back when it took so long to get from SLC to Provo (or vice versa) that the players had to stay overnight. The visitors usually stayed in the homes of the opposition players. Both teams used to go on outings together the afternoon before the game and apparently had a pretty decent time. Haight said that while he didn’t remember any of the scores of any of the games, he had fond memories of some good friends he had made on the opposing team, friends he kept for life.
Somewhere along the way we’ve gone way, way wrong with this competition with Utah. There is no liking, damned little sportsmanship, and a tremendous amount of hatred between both sides. I’ve written before that I won’t be surprised in the slightest when I hear that somebody has been shot or beaten to death at or after one of these games. To be honest, I’m surprised that it hasn’t happened yet.
The whole idea of sports in the first place was to teach young people about what it took to win at a difficult task. It was also to show them how to win or lose with grace since both situations would be encountered lifelong. What we have now in this rivalry is the inculcation of true hatred which manifests itself in behavior which is completely unacceptable among decent people.
Before anyone says “well, that is what rivals do,” let me note that I’ve been very involved with two other major college rivalries, Texas-A&M, and VA-VA Tech, and seen nothing like the vitriol that flows between Utah and BYU. The anti-Mormon bigotry makes this a truly vicious hatred and our fans fully respond to that.
To be honest, I’m not sure what, if anything, is the upside of playing Utah anymore. I’ve thought for a decade now that I wished we didn’t play them in anything because win or lose, the games don’t bring about much that is good on either side.
There were two throws that were gift wrapped INTs. However, Kruger coming to the opposite flat to pick off the ball was a tremendous defensive play. Also, Sean Smith’s pick and the one that were tipped were just plays by the defense.
When we mixed up the run and passed on the D to keep them honest, we really had the defense against the wall. I think that even in the game, it was obvious that was working.
I agree with Markell. The problems with Max should have been addressed in his first year. Now you have reinforced habits that are going to be difficult to break, but I think Max will do it. He is still a great QB and sometimes you just have games where you don’t play your best. Sometimes you play really bad. Immediately following the game, I just felt bad for Max. There is no one who feels worse than he does.
They need to regroup and look forward to the bowl game. Whoever it is, it does not matter, it will just be a chance to put a positive spin on an otherwise good season and move in a positive direction for next season. A bowl win counts for both this and next season.
Mac,
Good points about the nature of the rivalry. However, having a natural rival really can help teams perform to their highest level.
It really is the BCS that has made rivalry games take an even uglier turn. Look at what OU did to TT. Look at Utah passing for their last score. I seriously doubt that BYU would have stopped them again from the 3 inch line, but Coach Whittingham either wanted to win big to ensure that the Utes are not jumped in the BCS polls, or that was two years of frustration coming out, or both.
The BCS system is to blame. It is to blame for fans being disappointed with a 10-2 season and being mad at coaches who have reliably guided this team to at least 10 wins in three plus seasons. Not even Lavell Edwards did that. Keep this in perspective and read President Monson’s talk “Finding Joy in the Journey.” He must have been directing this to BYU fans.
Our team is still great. Max is still great. He will get better next year. The coaching staff is still great.
Markell,
I enjoyed your story about the fans while waiting in line for the bathroom. It is true that you have played and beat and lost to the Utes. I, as a fan, have only cheered. It was not me down there on the field.
BYU is MY Football Team. It is they who play and not me. So when ever I discuss the team, I never inject the ‘royal WE’ in to the conversation. I don’t have that right. But I can say we cheered and cheered and left our voices in the stadium.
Great blog….love learning more about Football and insight to my team!
Correction just three seasons of 10 wins
Kruger is still open…..
How do we run for 7 yards a carry and not run the ball 20 more times than we did. We could have worn out the Ute’s defense and kept their offense off the field. I think Anae’s play calling all year has been suspect at best. Utah knew that BYU’s coaches are too stubborn to adjust their game plan. Utah knew exactly what BYU was going to do and they didn’t even need to make adjustments (other than when they noticed that BYU was not going to run the ball they started dropping D-lineman into coverage). That means they were dropping 8 men into coverage. I realize Hall has the chance to audible, but he shouldn’t need to audible on every play.
I also need to give props to the defense. They played very well. Especially in the 2nd half. This does make me wonder if they would have prepared more for other games would the defense have been more dominating this year?
Kyle M i want the video clip. What is your email?
Hey guys, first post here. Great thing you have going here! Keep it up!
I live in Arizona (Mesa) and have not been able to watch many of the games, but I do follow on radio via the internet.
I was very diappointed naturally by the game, but I have to say that anyone with an objective eye could have seen it coming.
While he BYU Defense has played above expectations, the BYU Offense has not played up to its potential for most of the year. Utah’s has. They deserved the win and the BCS trip. They deserve a shot at the championship as well. As a program, with 2 BCS trips in recent years, they are better than BYU. While Mendenhall has done very well and has built a better team than Crowton had, they have not achieved the BCS trips that Utah has.
This game was very winnable for BYU, but the mistakes were obviously too much. In most other games the team was able to win in spite of the problems. By now BYU should be very happy to be in a bowl at all.
The Defense has played above expectations. The Offense has been disappointing for much of the year. This game was a microchasm of this year’s season, in demonstrating that fact.
On the behavior of Utah fans and alleged exaggeration of poor behavior – I saw plenty in the 90s while I had season tickets at LES that supports the tone of what I hear about Utah fans in RES. However I have seen BYU fans do things I’m not proud of too, in response to the aforementioned behavior by Ute fans. Wyoming fans were also bad in LES, but not nearly as bad as Ute fans. The most friendly and classy visiting fans I ever saw at LES? – Notre Dame by far.
Thanks again for putting the site together.
-Boyd
Cory,
Here is a link from the Alberquerque Tribune about bowl money.
http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2007/dec/20/new-mexico-bowl-team-expenses-chip-away-payout-pro/
And here’s another about the Utes’ BCS winning 2004 season from cnn.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/23/commentary/column_sportsbiz/sportsbiz/index.htm
The quote by the NM AD sums it up, “In our league, the hope is to cover all expenses; don’t lose money.”
The “left-over” money, is split among the MWC teams, with the BCS earning school getting about double what other teams get.
So, the MWC ADs (except Holmoe) were glad that Utah won Saturday.
I do think that it’s AWESOME that BYU, Utah and other MWC teams were so competitive this year outside of our conference. Folks, with 3 bowl wins, we will end up with 3 MWC teams in the top 25. Air Force could also make it with a bowl win. We’ve never had more than 2 teams finish in the top 25. And I predict our 4 top dogs BYU, Utah, Air Force and TCU are not going to be going away any time soon…
MWC AP Final Rankings:
2007 – BYU (14)
2006 – BYU (16), TCU (22)
2005 – TCU (11)
2004 – Utah (4)
2003 – Utah (21), TCU (25)
2002 – TCU (23)
BTW, in a later post, Quinn would you and Markell comment on the benefits for players in bowl games??? I don’t want to start a huge financial debate, but I personally understand the argument for paying college football players. I’m thankful to all of the players for providing entertainment for me, the fan, and I look at bowl games as the only real way to reward y’all – with the “goodie bags”, flights back home for the holidays, which to me isn’t enough for all of the effort y’all put in.
That’s what I love about the college game, though. It epitomizes playing the sport for the love of the game and most players put in all of the effort knowing they may not play “on Sunday”.
This is why it’s about the church. Because of some self-righteous prick that made this statement on this site.
What exactly are you talking about when you say this?
“At the end of a hard loss like this there is something to be said about walking off the field, and out of the stands knowing there is a little something to the BYU program that they will never have. ”
What is that little something you arrogant prick? Thinking you are better than someone else because you have the Gospel? Great way to think. You should feel sorry for how much hate comes out of crappy Utah fans.
Bews, on November 22nd, 2008 at 9:45 pm Said:
Man, what a disappointment. I secured tickets through my wife’s grandpa who is and has been a die hard Ute for 50 plus years. I knew going through him would land me clean in the middle of Ute country. But I rolled the dice and decided to rough it out in lieu of watching the game in “HD” on the crappy MTN. I have to say what a truly horrible decision I made. Not that anyone out there will be surprised at the Ute’s reaction to a BYU fan sitting in their midst, but I was surprised at how low they have gone. I have been to Rice Eccles in the past watching my bro-in-law punt for BYU but today it was taken to a whole new level of profanity, lack of class and just pure trash. From watching the guy next to me get tackled by security to have some idiot clap and yell in my wife’s face (that almost went to blows but I think my 4 day stubble convinced him I am not the ordinary BYU fan and was ready to go fisticuffs…) to the sign that said, “Collie is a B****” they demonstrated a whole new level of ignorance, stupidity, and malice.
At the end of a hard loss like this there is something to be said about walking off the field, and out of the stands knowing there is a little something to the BYU program that they will never have. The one time I felt good tonight was running into Markell Staffieri before the game and seeing the sun glisten off his championship ring from last year. I immediately thought of next year when we get another crack at those freaking Utes
Quinn-
I do not have time to read 100 posts so maybe someone already said this, but for the first time I believe, even though it comes down to the players making the plays, that the Ute coaches outcoached ours and put their players in a better position to win than ours did. I support our coaches 100% but in terms of X’s & O’s and game plans I think the Ute staff is better.
What do you think?
OK, now I have read all the posts. I am going to ask Markell because he has been making many comments about our posts (and I wish I could ask a former offensive player like Steve Young, Ty Detmer, Chad Lewis, etc.). I do not think that Coach Anae & Coach Doman are in the same league as some of the offensive coaches who came through here in the late 70’s & 80’s: Holmgren, Scoffield, etc…Any opinions? Doman was not a great QB here nor with the Niners but that’s no the most important thing; can he really coach a QB well? Some ex-players make good coaches and some do not. And, Coach Anae has not created an offensive machine here anywhere near equal to Texas Tech’s.
Three 11-2 seasons in a row is fantastic for sure and I am just as supportive now as I have been all season. Anyone care to describe or know how hard it is to “threepeat”?
But, to get to the next level does the team have to consider coaching changes also?
Finally, I hope this does not affect next year’s recruiting effort…especially the LB from Hawaii.
Thanks Quinn & Markell
What I think we saw the other night is that BYU has basically been faking it all year and whether everyone didn’t notice it, or refused to belive it I think it showed on Saturday. Max showed again that he can’t win the big one and that he can’t play well against quality defenses. We saw this against TCU and it doesn’t look like he took anything from the TCU game and learned from it. Markell, you said it, there are some people who think they can just show up and win and don’t have the commitment to focus on improving and getting better. They think they have arrived and that they are good enough, and then a quality team comes along and exposes them. I think that’s what Max has shown all season long. I haven’t seen an improvement from last year and have seen the same mistakes all year long. He could get away with it playing against nobody’s but when they play against a defense with the speed and strength of Utah, how can it be a surprise to anyone that they made him pay for those mistakes? Bottom line is, he doesn’t improve. There is a cockiness there where he thinks he can talk smack and act tough and that somehow makes him a leader. He needs to take care of business on the field first before he opens his mouth.
The second thing we saw was the coaching. The fact that they flat out refused to adapt or change anything was as big a part of the loss as Max’s six turnovers. They were gaining 7 yards per carry on the ground, why not continue running, why try to force the pass. I realize that at the end you may need to to try to get back in the game, but after pick number 3 why not just have a conservative sustaining drive to get some points on the board to stop the bleeding and give your offense some confidence and get your QB’s head back in the game?
The defense was something that everyone knew was going to happen. The bend but don’t break scheme was barely holding mediocre teams back, you have to know that playing against someone like Utah it wasn’t going to be enough. Granted, the offense wasn’t helping the D out with the field position, but you know that you are going against a good QB in Brian Johnson with the ability to score qhickly, it didn’t seem like they were stunting or bringing many people at all. It seemed like the coaches tried to play the game down and prepare like it was any other game Choosing to stick to the game plan that barley beat teams like Colorado St. and New Mexico. The fact is, it’s not just another game. It’s UTAH and it’s for a share of the Conference Title. Get excited, get hyped, change your scheme, throw something new at them, don’t show them the same thing you’ve done all year and the same things that they have been able to scout and see on tape.
Ammon-
You are trashing Max the same as 95% of all Cougar fans are. Can’t win big games? Utah & TCU last year and he late game TD drives to pull out a win many times this year. He is on pass to end up right behind Detmer in total yardage & TD’s & may be ahead in completion % & QB rating; he is also ahead of Beck as a So & Jr. As Markell said, much of it has to be blamed on Coach Anae & Doman; Anae because Coach Anderson totally outcoached & knew exactly what we were going to do (has Couch Hill ever come up with some wrinkles in our D like what Kruger did?) and it is up to Doman to progress Hall during the season. Maybe we should try to lure Sarkesian back here as our OC/QB coach. Doman was mostly a running QB & never a real passer & QB technician; case in point, the Dolphins said they had to change a lot of what Beck had been taught, especially his throwing mechanics.
Know body worked harder than Hall between Spring & Fall camp and no one staid after practice a worked more than Hall (except Collie who was there with him. No, as for me and my house, we will continue to love & support Max and he will turn out to be one of the best. Even Detmer who had just won the Heisman went out & had a terrible game against Hawaii & then is Senior year was not as productive as his junior.
Too many of us are freaking out and throwing him under the bus…he will be fine. I love the way that Coach M always says that he is constantly learning from his mistakes and growing as a HC but I have never heard any of his assistants say that except Weber.
Finally, the team had added pressure on them from the very beginning because of out theme. I have never in the 35 years I have been watching NFL & college football seen a team publically announce their goal to go undefeated. Utah had no pressure on them until the very end because they just concentrated and playing the best they could & let the press (local & national) focus on BYU)
We are not giving enough credit to Coach W and his staff…they did a phenomenal job!
GO UTES & BEAT WHOEVER YOU PLAY!
You know it is a great team slogan when everybody else adopts the same one! I couln’t tell you what any other team in the nation had as there moto or whatever it is callled. But when other teams start adopting that exact same moto the same year, you know it is a great one.
If we are throwing names out for a new offensive coordinator/QB coach then I will say why look any further down the list then the #1 Yard QB:
Ty Detmer the reason he played so much in the pros wasn’t because he was a great backup it was because he was so smart and knew the game/position inside/out, backards/forwards, Rightside up/rightside down.
Cory-
Amen…start promoting this immediately! Doman can prepare Max & other QB’s for what the pressure is like at that position but in terms of reading defenses and the machanics of throwing the ball, Coach Detmer would be the perfect fit.
Quinn & Markell, what do you think?
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