Why 11-2 Now Feels So Different
I had been wanting to write something that addresses our collective anger and disappointment over an 11-2 season for quite some time now. I remember having these same feelings last year. The big question is that in 2006 and 2007 we went 11-2 and felt like we were on top of the world. Now going 11-2 is the most depressing thing there is. How can that be?Well, Shawn beat me to the punch a bit last night by writing a great post which I will include parts of below. This is why 11-2 in 2009 feels so different from 11-2 in 2006/7.
2006:
Lost two Non-Conference road games early in the year by a combined total of 10 points. One to a very good BC team and one to a lousy UofA team.
Beat #15 TCU on the road, beat Utah. Won the Conference Championship and went UNDEFEATED at LES! Home Field Dominance: Average score at home…BYU 47 – Opponent 12
Ended the year with a Vegas Bowl route of the Ducks 38-8!
2007:
Beat Utah in the final home game! Conference Champions!
Won the Las Vegas Bowl again, in a redemption game against the Bruins!
Once again, 2 losses were non-conference and early in the year. 2 losses by a combined total of 18 points. Went undefeated at home, won the conference championship and beat Utah! Home Field Dominance slides due to offensive production…BYU 28 – Opponents 11
2008:
Play a weaker non-conference schedule early in the season and don’t dominate teams, but remain undefeated.
Get Blown out of the water on the road in Ft. Worth by TCU.
Get ran out of Rice Eccles in a loss to Utah.
End the season with a Vegas Bowl loss to a mediocre UofA team.
3 losses by a combined total of 59 points. Still Undefeated at home with the Offense putting up big numbers against N. Iowa, a 4-8 UCLA team, Wyoming and SDSU…BYU 41 – Opponents 11
2009:
Start off with a Bang against a Very Good #3 ranked OU!
Lose to a horrendous FSU by 33 (2006/7 combined losses total 28 points)
Lose to a VERY GOOD TCU by 31
Point of the story is that in 2006/7 when we lost, our goals of Conference Champions, Home Field Dominance, Beating Utah and Bowl Win were all still intact. Not to mention that we were IN every game right up to the end.
In 2008 and 2009 our losses came IN CONFERENCE and were by HUGE margins or out of conference to crappy teams.
I think these facts alone make it harder to swallow a 10-3 and 11-2 season in 2008/9 as compared to 2006/7.
I say screw the BCS Bowl game and lets get back to our goals of Undefeated at Home, Beat Utah, Win a Bowl game, and see where that lands us at the end of the year.
In order to win the MWC you have to go undefeated in conference. Ipso-Facto we beat Utah and TCU. Then you play well in the pre-season and badda-bing, badda-boom you are in a BCS Bowl.
Let’s get back to basics and not put the cart before the horse.
It’s the curse of the new field. Gotta blame something.
It’s the curse of the BCS. Any loss removes us from BCS consideration, which causes us to feel we had a bad season. At least it is true, as Staff (and Shawn) point out, for the last two years when BCS hopes were so high.
I am ashamed of myself for how quickly I have forgotten the opening game of this season and how it should go down as one of the great ones of BYU football history.
Well put. It helps me understand why I felt a little let-down after last season. I hope more people read this.
Great insight Staff! I completely agree – time to refocus on our goals. Especially being UNDEFEATED at LES!
Great post Staff. It’s all about expectations and our expectations skyrocketed after the OU game.
I 100% agree with your comment, “I say screw the BCS Bowl game and lets get back to our goals of Undefeated at Home, Beat Utah, Win a Bowl game, and see where that lands us at the end of the year.” So true, so true.
For me so much of this season will be salvaged if we beat the Utes.
i’ve been wanting to write a “post” on here for a while because something about this site is starting to bother me. (now please realize i am pointing out the one negative, when there are many, many positives)
i feel like the authors of this blog, who were very good, and helped us get to 11 win seasons, think their accomplishments are somehow greater than what the team is currently doing. are the losses different? sure. but so are the wins.
the 2006-2007 teams never have a win that will be as big as the OU game. the 2008 team lost to the #2 and #7 team ON THE ROAD. when did the 2006-2007 ever play TWO top-10 teams on the road? never! this years TCU team is better than any of the teams from the last few years. the team that beat us on saturday could beat ANYONE in the country…the same could not be said of the 2006 or 2007 TCU team.
the reason the losses are bigger…we’re playing better teams. this team is just as good IMO as any of the 2006 or 2007 teams, in fact i think they are very, very similar. they are just playing much more talented teams, hence the bigger losses. (2008/2009 TCU and 2008 and possibly 2009 Utah are the best Utah/TCU teams of the 4 year span, not to mention the fact that we beat #3 OU. the FSU loss is inexplainable as was the UofA loss. and the bowl loss last year was pretty bad…but that UofA team isn’t looking to shabby right now are they!)
i’m not trying to bash on the 2006 or 2007 teams, or the authors. i just get the vibe sometimes on here that they helped raise BYU to new levels and this team is making everyone “depressed”. i was just as depressed when we lost to a horrible UofA team in 2006 as i was on saturday. the current 2008-2009 teams have maintained the same record as the 2006-2007 teams have playing tougher teams. could this team lose to utah and their bowl game…maybe. but i don’t see it happening. by that time utah and BYU will both be ranked and play the game ranked again for the second year in a row…something the 2006-2007 teams never accomplished.
the “beck-era” teams brought us out of the darkness. the “max-era” has sustained this success against tougher competition. what our program is trying to figure out is how to keep improving and be able to raise the bar even higher by beating these tougher teams we are playing and move into the nations “elite” (teams that win 12-13 games a year rather than 10-11)
again please don’t consider this a personal attack. i just am expressing a feeling i get reading posts on here. which i love. i personally know john beck and max hall (went to HS with them) and love them both. they are great guys and QB’s and will go down as all-time greats at BYU. i just hope the intent behind my post is understood, because i fear it could be misconstrued.
Thanks for the article Staff. It makes sense why we are disappointed with a winning season. Get back to winning conference championships cause we ain’t cracking the BCS without one.
Good points but let’s keep something else in mind…
Two weeks ago I had a premonition about another team emerging as a force in the MWC. With what I think is ex exceptional coaching talent and a long standing ability to recruit good talent, we may need to add SDSU as another “must beat,” team to our current list of two.
The MWC title is no longer a “gimmie” for a good team any more than a conference championship in the Big 12. Should the world turn as I think it should:
1) BYU and Utah will STOP seeing the PAC 12 is there pot at the end of the rainbow.
2) Boise State will join the conf and make it an even ten and the BSCS will be forced to add the conference on its on-field performance merits rather than just media market.
3) The Cottonbowl in the new Dallas stadium will become the sixth BSCS game to accomodate the expansion.
And should all of that happen, or even if it does not all unfold as I dream it might, the MWC title is not BYU’s entitlement to lose each year, but a reach and a goal in and of itself.
In the meantime, scools need to take care of business which Utah at Oregon and BYU at home against the ragged Seminoles did not in 2009.
I’m sure there will be a lot of, “Witt, your dreaming,” but I’m sticking to my ideal. The best part of all may be being able to tell the arogant 10 presidents of the PAC 10 schools to “stick there liberal noses back in one anothers’ body orifaces and start watching the taillights of their neighbor to the east.” Granted, it won’t happen in 2010, but I think there is more pride in my scenario than in dreaming of being admitted as beggars into the ranks of the nine plus one.
Between now and then, our program at BYU needs to find its own fire. Whether it’s a better scheme, more talent or a new team sports shrink, I don’t know but it’s probably some of all three.
Doug
In a way the season reminds me a bit of 1990 when we had this huge upset win over Miami and expectations in Provo were through the stratosphere. Fans were using the N word and then we had a little setback against Oregon. BYU bounced back and Detmer won the Heisman. BYU was getting all kinds of love from the national media and then came Hawaii and Texas A&M, enough said. Ironically, when most fans look back in BYU football history, that year is often considered one of the better years eventhough we ended that season getting our butts handed to us. We won’t get a Heisman winner this year but years from now I think we will look at this season more favorably than we are now assuming we win the games we have left.
Justin,
Than you for your Comment. The whole point of this blog post was just the opposite of what you are saying. The point was to do away with that mentality that 2006/7 were better than 2008/9. The point of this post is to show that the end results were similar and yet people look at this year’s and last year’s teams as failures when they are not.
I am trying to bring more credibility to the team this year.
My reason for writing the post is that I am reading the same comments right now that I read last year after our TCU loss, and I think that the majority of fans are losing focus, that 11-2 is a great season, and not many teams go through a season with only 2 losses.
ok…thanks mark. i see now you were explaining why some feel the way they do, not necessarily explaining your own feelings.
if we keep winning 10-11 games a year we’ll keep getting great recruits (see this years incoming class) and will eventually break through the 12-13 win barrier.
i also agree with Witt’s comment that eventually, (2013) the MWC will be added to the BCS and the Cotton bowl will be added as a 6th BCS game. i personally think we could do it without BSU, but if we need to add them great. that would take the pressure of the players and fans to have to go 12-0 every year. we could schedule a game like OU every year to help us prepare harder in the summer and provide a good check point to see where we are at. and then (even if we lose a head scratcher like FSU) we can still win the MWC and get into a BCS bowl game.
11-2? come on guys we still have to play Air force, Utah, and Washington
-(my Vegas bowl Prediction, we go every year now no matter our ranking and it would do sweet justice to go beat Wash after they bailed on us)-
Who is to say we are going undefeated the rest of the season? we may very well end up 8-5.
Personally, I’d rather see the Holiday Bowl become a BCS bowl just because San Diego is a great location for that time of year and they have a nice stadium too. I guess Dallas just doesn’t appeal to me that much eventhough they have a cool new stadium.
The other factor which makes this year disappointing is we have a senior three year starter at qb as well as a lot of senior skill position players. Generally that guarantees byu a conference championship. We don’t usually expect to get blown out twice and held in check offensively with lots of seniors on the team. I think a lot of people look at byu as rebuilding next year so this was really the chance to do big things. It may be another two seasons before we can really get our hopes up for a spectacular year.
Bronco needs to do a better job of differentiating between the long-term goals of the program, and the focus/goals of the individual team each year. Everyone knows that Bronco wants to build a national powerhouse program that is consistently in the conversation for national championship and BCS appearances. This should be the goal of every college football coach. However, he has not been very good at explaining that when he talks about those goals, he isn’t necessarily talking about right now. I don’t think that one of the team goals going into this season was a national championship. But to listen to the media quote Bronco, you would think that was right at the top of the list, especially after the OU game. I think that Bronco probably has a pretty clear picture of where he wants this program to be and how to get there, but I’m not sure that those expectations are being clearly communicated to the players, coaches, and fans. I think Bronco could do a better job of managing expectations. The infamous “Quest” tee-shirts from last year are a perfect example. That whole campaign was a disaster waiting to happen, and then when the loss to TCU happened, that ridiculous expectation made it that much worse, and that much more difficult for the players to overcome. I think that Max is still playing under the shadow of an expectation of perfection. If BYU wins out, beating Utah and winning a bowl game, then Max should go down as one of the all-time greats.
BTW, in my estimation, this TCU team is the best team in the history of the MWC.
I disagree with you Justin. I can handle a few losses a year if we compete in the game. They are still disappointing, but some mistakes were made and it didn’t go our way. Fine.
But I have a hard time watching a game where it looks like we don’t even care and get blown out of the water.
As long as we are competing I will be happy.
I really like the thought of bringing in BSU to the MWC, its an easy drive for away games, but I think that a better team to add would be Houston. Big tv market texas recruits, BYU goes to texas twice every other year,and they have also been good for several years. I like BSU, and they are a great team, but what else do they bring
Nobody cares about Houston, not even in Houston. The market is more than dominated by UT and aTm- nothing else even gets more than an occasional sniff. Adding Houston = bad idea.
I agree with Stevia Suave.
We recruit a unique type of athlete at BYU and because he or she is at BYU their priorities will be different than many of the athletes at other schools. Because I agree with the mission of the university, I don’t mind if we don’t win every game. I mind, however, when the team doesn’t appear to be particularly interested in playing.
Air Force recruits different athletes with many of the same “explanations” we hear about BYU: athletes are slower, the athletes are primarily focused on other things, they will never get the great recruits etc. But Air Force always shows up. We show up most of the time. In some games – like the OU game – the defense runs to the ball, hits hard, executes well and the offense fights to the end. Sometimes, however, we look like a different team – a disinterested team. Sometimes there appears to be no fight in the team. Losing a few games “well” is acceptable. Not trying your best is unacceptable.
Like I said, as the MWC makes progress, the conference title becomes more and more elusive rather than BUY’s to win just for being a “good” team. However, Markell is not addressing the underlying frustration of many fans this week, which is that the team didn’t show up for two big games in their own house this year. People wonder if it is coaching, intensity, mental conditioning, physical talent, whatever.
Where I agree with Markell is that a ten win season is good and I reiterate that the conference is getting better. But that doesn’t explain the poor showing against TCU and a FSU tea
that is nothing like the Seminoles of the ’80s.
Another beef I have is with the attitude that 10 wins is enough as long as we have a team full of RMs, do firesides and service projects, home taching gets done, everyone gets good grades, etc. Sure, “Football is just the vehicle,” but I’m reminding us that “Football is the program.”
Yes, I’m proud of a 10 win season, but replay Jan Jorgensen’s post-game interview and tell me how he feels about a 10 win season. Jan’s a winner and expects his entire team and the coaches to play 110% every game just as he, Max, Harvey and Pitta do each week.
I’m not saying it was lack of desire by players, I’m saying I don’t know what it is but I hope Bronco is asking the same question and looking for a way to become a better gameday coach. From all I know about Mendenhall, I’m sure he is.
I’m a BYU fan and will be blue til I die. I’m a Bronco Mendenhall fan and don’t see that changing because I buy into his program. Just remember, “It may not just be about whether you win or lose… but they always keep score.”
Markell and Justin both described exactly on how I’ve been feeling since the TCU loss. CL makes a great point about Max’s senior QB season and thus the higher expectations.
This season is LONG from over. Utah could bust TCU’s BCS bid and we could beat Utah and end up in a 3-way tie for MWC champion. We could also go 8-5 (thanks cory for pointing out that horrid possibility).
Last thing – I know everyone thinks that FSU is a terrible team but their losses have been close and I’d argue it’s a better loss than USC’s against UW.
Our goal should be to take every game as it comes and win it.
Let the chips fall where they may with all the BCS stuff. If winning every game you play is too high of expectations then we need to make changes outside of our expectations, but we should never change our goal of winning every game.
We are all smart enough to know the differences between good loses and bad loses…. even good wins and bad wins. It is difficult and maybe close to impossible to win every game; however, that will always be my expectation. Whether we are 3-8 or 11-0 my expectation is the next game against Utah we will win it. I have never showed up to a game thinking we can’t win it with the right scheme, coaches or players. Whether it be Oklahoma or UNLV/SDSU. If we lose it is never because we had no shot and the other team was just too damn good, no matter how damn good that other team was that day.
When this is no longer my expectation I will move on to something else besides BYU football.
Win out. I’ll feel a lot better if they are at least UNDEFEATED AT LES in November…
UPSET WATCH: SDSU at Utah today.
Between us, I’d love to see it. We want Utah to beat TCU but until then I’d be happy to see the Utes go down. I’ll pull for yewts out of conference but today, I’m an Aztec fan and anticipating the emergence of another MWC power.
I think the thing about this year and last is the way we’ve lost the games. FSU and TCU creamed us. At home. The earlier formentioned years, as you mentioned Markell, were extremely close games on the road against pretty good teams.
I wouldn’t be so bummed about it, if we at least made that TCU game a little more competitive. That’s what’s so disheartening about it.
We all know that things tend to go away when you’re winning. A convincing win over Wyoming next week could be just what the doctor ordered.
On that topic, after watching the Utes struggle with the Cowboys, it’s become clear we need to bring pressure, more pressure, and even more pressure to their QB. Then, he will crumble. If we give him time, he’ll make us pay.
I really hope Coach Hill was watching that game tonight. It was pretty telling.
Personally, I think we’re going to win out the schedule. I see the Air Force and Utah games as big challenges, but I think we prevail in both.
Can’t wait til’ next Saturday to watch the fellas take the field again.
Go Cougars
I blew it on the yewt schedule. Still on the record with my prediction that they lose to Aztecs. And yrs, they did struggle with the Cowboys at RES. Doesn’t bode well for them.
I completely agree with you Witt. I feel complete confident saying BYU will end 11-2 and the Yewts 9-4.
One thing I think we can all agree on is that losing to the Utes is not an option this year. We have to beat them. We’re a proud team with seniors in key positions and playing at home. Fans need something to feel better about when the season ends.
I hate to say it but that Oklahoma game is no more impressive that Utah’s win at Michigan last year.
Overtime noone will remember how really mediocre Oklahoma was this year but truth be told they were and are far from being a good team. They may rack up some wins in the Big XII but that conference is kind of down this year.
BYU just loses most big games. I don’t know what it is but they just don’t get up for them like they should. The coaches don’t make adjustments. The players are not really prepared.
Until this changes. BYU will continue to have a good 10 -3 type year, but really who couldn’t in this conference this year. We should win against Utah and TCU the years we have them at home. We should just be satisfied with that and realize our fate
Seasider, I completely agree. Markell, what you said hit home to me. We have no shot at the MWC title this year. Sigh.
So, what’s left? Win out. Win out, and beat the Utes handily. And I think we will.
Best way to get into their heads is a handy victory over the Pokes this Saturday.
Already counting the hours.
Let’s go Cougars!
Staff,
I haven’t read all of the comments here, so maybe someone has already said what I am going to say. I’ve read your responses to the comments, though, and I don’t think you have addressed the point I am going to make.
As I understand it, Bronco has laid out some clear goals for his teams. Not all of them are made public, but some have been. Those goals include, I believe, winning a conference championship, winning a state championship, winning at LES, and winning a bowl game. Correct me if I am wrong.
Looking back on the 11-2 seasons we consider positively, they all managed to meet some of – if not all of – those goals. Last season, we did none of those things. In other words, those eleven wins were really just that – just eleven wins! No conference championships! No state championships! No bowl wins!
All things considered, I would take an 8-win season that included a conference, state, and bowl “championships” over even a 12 win season that included none. Add the win-at-LES goal on top of all of that, just to illustrate why this season looks like it will be a disapointment.
I guess I could be persuaded that these goals are a bit lofty, and fans should be happy with something less. But when I look around the conference, it is hard to get excited about anything less. Let’s face it – there are some bad programs in the MWC, and there isn’t much satisfaction in beating most of these teams. They do often produce good teams, but not even the “fans” of most of these schools really care. . . it is hard to be excited about beating programs where thier own fans don’t even seem to care (side note:shame on BSU, Utah, and TCU for having empty seats this weekend!).
All that said, this season could turn into a relative success if BYU beats Utah and wins a bowl game, for the reasons I point out above. I would be pretty happy with that.
Ok. I read you post more carefully and we are saying the same thing. No need to post my comment, sorry and thanks.
Agree that the season’s not over, and very worried about upcoming games with Air Force and Utah.
Why should we be satisfied with 11-2 seasons, especially when our losses pointedly show how far away we are from “the others”. I’m all about being excited to win the MWC, but we’ll always be “knocking on the door” unless every year, Utah, BYU and TCU are ranked in the top 25, get a win against a good BCS team (or two), and have competitive games in the 1 or 2 games that they lose.
Say what you will about a 1 or 2 loss season, but I think we’re beyond considering that a success. Do you think that the result of TCUs year this year isn’t going to give them some awesome recruits in the next few years? Do you think that Utah’s wins in the past few years isn’t giving them some edge with recruits that BYU needs mightily? We’re the only ones who aren’t setting ourselves up with a “great season.” I’m concerned that readjusted our mentality will do nothing more than put us at a regular #3 finisher in the MWC. Hope you’re excited about that. Yippee, Poinsetta Bowl we come!
It’s disappointing to lose, especially at home, and ESPECIALLY after beating OU in the opener. But it’s not the losing to a couple decent teams (one outstanding team) that bothers me, it is the way BYU lost in those games. Those types of losses happened quite regularly in the Crowton years and I thought we’d elevated the program above that. Apparently we are not there yet. Frankly, I was shocked at how badly BYU was beaten in those games. In the past, I could expect BYU to be competitive at home, even against superior athletic competition. That’s the difference for me. It’s definitely a feeling that BYU was completely outclassed and not even competitive, when all appearances before the games from a talent and coaching standpoint were that BYU should not only be competitive, but win. It’s hard to understand and impossible to accept. I hope that it can be fixed.
Darkbull,
I don’t recall anyone saying they were satisfied with the season with our season so far, but we’re not destitute either. There’s a lot of good we can take from our season so far. I have no illusions that the team will fix their problems overnight and become perfect. The issues are just something they’re gonna have to play through. Unless we have a losing season, I don’t see our 2 losses affecting our recruiting one way or the other. Utah’s success will naturally get them some good recruits but BYU’s priorities are a little different than Utah’s when it comes to the type of player they’re looking for. Despite 2 undefeated seasons and BCS bowl wins, BYU has managed to have stronger recruiting classes and next year will be no exception. The goals to win every game and get to a BCS will not change just because we’re trying to look at the glass half full.
Maybe what we really need are three seasons of 5-7, 4-8 and 5-6 to get us back to reality. Oh wait, we did that and we still act like a bunch of crybabies. We act like winning football games is an easy thing and 11-2 is bad.
I for one would be thrilled to be 11-2 this year. To say we’re “beyond that” is arrogant and absurd. Should we be aiming higher? Of course! But that doesn’t mean we have to act like a bunch of ninnies every time we have a bad game (or even two).
In the meantime we have a lot of work to do to get to that record. Only one of those game is an easy opponent and even they can smack you in the face if you come in unprepared and disrespectful.
If the FSU loss hadn’t happened how it did, we would all think very differently about this season. It is hard to see BYU get blown out at home … but it seems that everyone is looking past the fact that TCU is ranked #4 in the country (#6 BCS)!!! TCU is a very good team. And the people here who say they want Utah to beat TCU don’t understand what TCU is doing/could do for the conference. I personally love the TCU program and respect Gary Patterson. TCU has been an excellent program for the conference and I feel they deserve accolades, and hope they get to a BCS bowl so they can receive those accolades.
I am personally okay with how this season has progressed. The losses were disappointing, for sure. I was at both games and it made me not want to take the time to go to games any more (I live in Ogden, so it’s almost an all-day affair). But we as fans are acting like BYU has top-notch talent and are under-achieving. BYU has excelled past their talent level in each of the past 3 years with hard work, and it’s a credit to the character of the players and coaches. While the fans gripe about going 11-2 or 10-3, recruits are taking notice and these current teams are laying the ground work for the program to get where we all envision. So stop whining. Now if BYU loses to Utah this year, THEN I will start to be upset. Because Utah is not that good of a team, even at 7-1. They almost lost to Wyoming at home…
Justice in Salt Lake City…
Salt Lake City, UT (AP) – A seven-year old boy was at the center of a SALT LAKE County courtroom drama yesterday when he challenged a court ruling over who should have custody of him.. The boy has a history of being beaten by his parents and the judge initially awarded custody to his aunt, in keeping with child custody law and regulation requiring that family unity be maintained to the highest degree possible..
The boy surprised the court when he proclaimed that his aunt beat him more than his parents and he adamantly refused to live with her. When the judge then suggested that he live with his grandparents, the boy cried and said that they also beat him.
After considering the remainder of the immediate family and learning that domestic violence was apparently a way of life among them, the judge took the unprecedented step of allowing the boy to propose who should have custody of him.
After two recesses to check legal references and confer with the child welfare officials, the judge granted temporary custody to the BYU Cougars Football Team, whom the boy firmly believes are not capable of beating anyone.
I FELL FOR IT!! DON’T FEEL BAD IF YOU DID TOO!!!
Boys don’t take the GAME TOO serious !!!
Dear Pizzaman,
Get that crap outta here.
Thank you,
Drakos
I think there is a difference between losing on the road and losing at home. I also think BYU’s overall schedule has dramatically improved in 2009 versus 2008, 2007, or 2006. I think two losses with this schedule is not embarrassing but I think getting blown out at home is. That said, this team is ranked in the top 25. That is a good BYU team. Any BYU team ranked in the top 25 is a good BYU team. We have a win over a ranked team, a loss to a very highly ranked team and what could result as a loss to a respectable FSU team. At the same time, losing at home kills. It embarrasses and frustrates the fans. Worst of all, it forces the fans to take an entire Saturday dedicated to a game which results in a loss. If you lose on the road it takes 4 hours out of your day. If you lose at home you have 4 hours of driving time, 3 1/2 hours of game time, and you have to cram everything else into the rest of the day. The resulting feeling of being robbed exacerbates the loss.
Markell, Quinn, or Ben,
I was hoping that one of you (or all if you feel so inclined) could write something up about the horrible experience of playing in Laramie. I’ve heard all sorts of horror stories about the fans there and how they treat our players, but maybe one of you guys could give specific examples, or rather, put some of the rumors to rest if in fact we’ve all heard a bunch of tall tales.
For example, I heard that back in the 80s, that the fans behind the Cougar bench would heat pennies with cigarette lighters then flick them at the players leaving burns. Sounds like pretty crazy stuff, but I’d be interested to know if this kind of stuff actually happens or not.
Thanks.
I understand those posting that they’re happy, and we all should be happy with a 10-2 season (assuming that happens). I’m not, for one main reason. Our 10 is made mostly up of teams that will have losing seasons, and are not very impressive (aka the Bo Didley Techs… I know I hate using that term, but it applies).
To move up on the national stage, we unfortunately have to break into the BCS dance, and to do so, we need a strong conference. To have a strong conference, we need more than 2-4 very good teams in the conference. We need a regular 4 guys that are on the big stage, and 2 others that have winning seasons with at least one respectable win outside the conference.
I’ll be pleased with 10-2 when it includes some wins that are more impressive (yes, I agree that U OK was impressive, and they’re better than their record (it’s almost bad now that we took out Bradford)). Beating San Diego State and UNLV doesn’t get much national attention.
Brett,
I know what TCU could do / is doing for the conference – Utah did it in 2004 and 2008. Granted, TCU is in a better position now than Utah was during those years. TCU will be in the NC discussion if they win out, though they won’t make it to the NC game.
I want Utah to beat TCU because that gives us a share of the MWC championship if we then beat Utah. I don’t know if we lose credibility as a MWC if there is a 3 way tie for the championship – in fact, voters may see this and say, “Wow, TCU was a good team this year and then they tied with BYU/Utah for the championship. Wow, the MWC has THREE good teams…
Ki
Kyoshige,
See the point you made? Utah has been doing it for the MWC for the past couple of years. TCU is going to do it this year? When is BYU going to do it? I appreciate the consistency we’ve developed, but it shouldn’t be a consistency of beating the others and losing every year to TCU and Utah, and I worry that we’re beginning the trend. Winning out the rest of our games will be a good sign, but I worry. Air Force isn’t a pushover, and Kyle Whittingham, I think, has proved himself a great coach. I hope Utah continues to pay him well so that he stays there. The tough competition will hopefully continue to fuel the fire for a better and better BYU for years to come.
Dear Dracos
what’s the matter can’t you laugh at yourself,
it IS funny !!!!
I don’t care who you are It was funny and it got me good.
Lighten up Dude!!!!
PS crap is a replacent word. If your going to swear at me it’s ok. Let it go, I can take it…
I’m still true blue for 49 years, I just know not to take it too serious do you ?
Pizzaman….
Pizzaman,
I think Drakos just wants to keep this forum a little more technical and so the funny stories might be better posted on different sites. It is funny but sometimes the discussion gets off track.
Darkbull,
When is BYU going to do it? This year we did it, with a win over Oklahoma in their own backyard and in front of 60,000 Sooner-clad fans (biggest NC win since Miami over a decade ago). In 2006 we beat a #15 TCU on the road. This year we’ll beat a #15 Utah at home.
I think sometimes we get focused on the BCS as the “final prize” and think it’s the ONLY prize. Are we less of a program than Utah/BSU/Hawaii since we haven’t made it to a BCS bowl? There are MANY BCS AQ teams who haven’t made it, and “all” they have to do is win their conference…
Ki (the one with Blue-Colored glasses)
Ki,
To be honest, I think that we do need to go to a BCS bowl before we can be put in the same category with Utah, Boise St., Hawaii (that’s a questionable one there), and soon to be TCU.
That’s really all there is to it, in my humble opinion. The MWC crown just isnt’ enough anymore.
Darkbull,
If that’s the case, then “schedule down” so we can focus on our two toughest conference games – TCU and Utah. For me, I don’t like it because it leaves us just where Utah and BSU are – an undefeated season and yet out of the NC discussion.
As opposed to this year if we ran the table we were certainly in the NC discussion. TCU SHOULD BE, but they are not, because of how low they started.
Bronco and the team have their sights set much higher than a BCS bowl; I like it. Of course, others may argue “just get to BCS first”. But if you’re going to BCS and then get a poor opponent (Utah, Hawaii, BSU) and then defeat them and you still don’t get a NC banner, what kind of taste does that leave in your mouth?
I don’t think Cougar fans are going to be happy with a BCS win; when that comes we will be wondering why we didn’t get a shot at the NC. Bronco wants BOTH.
Ki,
You make a great point! TCU and Utah have elevated themselves to the point where maybe we shouldn’t be shooting for higher.
Let’s say this: we win out our conference, play a few mediocre times for our “preseason”, maybe even throw in a Boise St. and manage to beat them (which I wouldn’t by any stretch consider a given). Imagine that, this year. That would get us a BCS bid. Do that for a few years, and people are going to notice, and then maybe things change.
As it is right now, are we asking too much? To conceivably get a national championship, the following would have to happen: come off a 1 season loss year, go undefeated, win the MWC, and beat 1-2 Top 15 teams in the process. Heck, we may have trouble in the future just scheduling Top 25 teams!
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